Father's Day-Part One
May. 16th, 2006 11:09 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
meganlynn09A few days later than I wanted, but here's my continuation of Rose/Doctor in "Father's Day". I think this episode shows real progress about how far they've come and it shows us how much they each can screw up. I love it.
All screencaps from Stakes and Stones Screencaps.
May have references to future episodes. This is only part one, I hope to have the 2nd part up later tonight. Enjoy!
Part 2 should be up later tonight, but not too late.
All screencaps from Stakes and Stones Screencaps.
May have references to future episodes. This is only part one, I hope to have the 2nd part up later tonight. Enjoy!
I really do like this episode. Everything is very well done, I'm just glad I was blinded by everything else that I didnt particularly care about specifics of the creatures. So on we go...
I didn't find it necessarily bad that she asked him to see her dad. And I liked that he didn't hide his worry for her. I'd be interested to have been inside Rose's head and figure out why she started to think about this.
And what the Doctor did here was fine. Took her to her parents' wedding, they are at a safe distance and she gets to see her dad. This is where it should have ended. They go back to the TARDIS and go on a new adventure. Unfortunately...
It doesn't end there. They're both at fault here. She shouldn't have asked and he shouldn't have said yes. Ok, he's a little more at fault because he actually knows better. But there's a desperation from her and it startles him I think. She's never been this vulnerable and I don't think the Doctor wants to hurt her when she's like this, so like we already knew, she twirls her finger and he does as she asks. But as much as we see that Rose has the Doctor wrapped around her finger, after this episode it sort of became obvious to me that he has her wrapped around his finger. They'd follow each other anywhere. Any of that make sense?
This just isn't good for either of them. You can see her start to lose her nerve here. She just shouldn't be there and all she has is the Doctor. Which is fine and good but he doesn't really know what to do...
But hold her hand. I don't know why, but this breaks my heart every time. I think because I see this and I know it means he knows what she's going through, somehow, and he's not saying no. He's letting this happen because she asked.
And this is why he says yes to try again. No caring man can stand a crying woman. Especially not when you care so much about her.
And we all know what happens. And she didn't plan it. I think when she had to watch it happen the first time and asked to go back, I think that is when it hits her to save him. It was never a plan, at first she really did just want to be there for him. But now she thinks that she can save him.
And she's in trouble...
And knows it and is stalling. I just wanted to note that when she isn't crying, she's absolutely gorgeous in this episode. I mean, Rose/Billie is very pretty in all the episodes, but for some reason she just stands out (appropriately) in this one and is gorgeous.
(all the dialogue is from Doctor Who Transcripts)
The best part is that he's basically pleading with her to understand.
Rose - there's a man alive in the world who wasn't alive before. An ordinary man, that's the most important thing in creation. The whole world's different because he's alive.
She doesn't get it at all. When she says the line below, she's completely wrong and he's told her why. But she wants to believe that he's jealous of being replaced rather than face the facts. And I don't think many people touched on it, or I missed it, but Rose just admitted that the Doctor's the most important man in her life (or was before she saved her dad). Unfortunately, he doesn't exactly help that by demanding the TARDIS key back. But I understand it. They are both incredibly hurt, to her she just got her dad back and the Doctor seems to want him dead, and the Doctor is pissed at himself and at Rose for just not understanding. He's the most human he's ever been in this episode.
But it was the end of the argument where Rose made me angry.
Why does she wonder why everyone believes them a couple? Did she not hear what she was yelling at him? That's not stuff you throw at your friend. And they make a good looking couple, but that's me being shallow. Not that that's a bad thing ;) And she follows that by saying "I think he left me". So who exactly is in denial because she's the only one that vehemently denies that they're a couple?
This was so wrong! You can't break our hearts AND take the TARDIS away from the Doctor. Talk about a panic.
Honey, you're in 1987, they don't have cell phones like that. Put it away!
I liked her reaction to seeing her parents argue. It sucks that their marriage isn't this perfect thing that Rose thought it was, but it's like we were talking about in one of my classes. When you go snooping where you don't belong, you're not gonna find something you like.
And while she's smiling, I hated that this was her reaction to seeing the Doctor come back. I know it was before she saw those horrid things, but look at her. She thinks she was right and he came back to her. But yet, she also seems sort of relieved. She just saw her parents make up and the Doctor's back.
But at least she recognizes that it's her fault. I like that the Doctor sort of walks away without answering. It's what she deserves for the moment.
So this is where I end this portion. I have lots more to go through, so don't miss the next part!
I didn't find it necessarily bad that she asked him to see her dad. And I liked that he didn't hide his worry for her. I'd be interested to have been inside Rose's head and figure out why she started to think about this.
And what the Doctor did here was fine. Took her to her parents' wedding, they are at a safe distance and she gets to see her dad. This is where it should have ended. They go back to the TARDIS and go on a new adventure. Unfortunately...
It doesn't end there. They're both at fault here. She shouldn't have asked and he shouldn't have said yes. Ok, he's a little more at fault because he actually knows better. But there's a desperation from her and it startles him I think. She's never been this vulnerable and I don't think the Doctor wants to hurt her when she's like this, so like we already knew, she twirls her finger and he does as she asks. But as much as we see that Rose has the Doctor wrapped around her finger, after this episode it sort of became obvious to me that he has her wrapped around his finger. They'd follow each other anywhere. Any of that make sense?
This just isn't good for either of them. You can see her start to lose her nerve here. She just shouldn't be there and all she has is the Doctor. Which is fine and good but he doesn't really know what to do...
But hold her hand. I don't know why, but this breaks my heart every time. I think because I see this and I know it means he knows what she's going through, somehow, and he's not saying no. He's letting this happen because she asked.
And this is why he says yes to try again. No caring man can stand a crying woman. Especially not when you care so much about her.
And we all know what happens. And she didn't plan it. I think when she had to watch it happen the first time and asked to go back, I think that is when it hits her to save him. It was never a plan, at first she really did just want to be there for him. But now she thinks that she can save him.
And she's in trouble...
And knows it and is stalling. I just wanted to note that when she isn't crying, she's absolutely gorgeous in this episode. I mean, Rose/Billie is very pretty in all the episodes, but for some reason she just stands out (appropriately) in this one and is gorgeous.
(all the dialogue is from Doctor Who Transcripts)
DOCTOR [suspiciously]
When we met, I said 'travel with me in space'. You said no. Then I said 'time machine'.
ROSE
It wasn't some big plan. I just saw it happening and I thought... I can stop it.
DOCTOR
I did it again. I picked another stupid ape. I should've known. It's not about showing you the Universe - it never is. It's about the Universe doing something for you.
ROSE
So it's okay when you go to other times, and you save people's lives - but not when it's me saving my dad.
DOCTOR
I know what I'm doing, you don't. Two sets of us being there made that a vulnerable point.
The best part is that he's basically pleading with her to understand.
ROSE
But he's alive!
DOCTOR
My entire planet died. My whole family. Do you think it never occurred to me to go back and save them?
ROSE
But it's not like I've changed history. Not much, I mean... he's never gonna be a world leader, he's not gonna start World War Three or anything...
Rose - there's a man alive in the world who wasn't alive before. An ordinary man, that's the most important thing in creation. The whole world's different because he's alive.
ROSE
What, would you rather him dead?
She doesn't get it at all. When she says the line below, she's completely wrong and he's told her why. But she wants to believe that he's jealous of being replaced rather than face the facts. And I don't think many people touched on it, or I missed it, but Rose just admitted that the Doctor's the most important man in her life (or was before she saved her dad). Unfortunately, he doesn't exactly help that by demanding the TARDIS key back. But I understand it. They are both incredibly hurt, to her she just got her dad back and the Doctor seems to want him dead, and the Doctor is pissed at himself and at Rose for just not understanding. He's the most human he's ever been in this episode.
ROSE
No, I get it! For once, you're not the most important man in my life.
DOCTOR
Let's see how you get on without me, then, give me the key.
But it was the end of the argument where Rose made me angry.
ROSE
I know how sad you are. You'll be back in a minute. Or you'll hang around outside the TARDIS waiting for me.
ROSE
And I'll make you wait a long time!
Why does she wonder why everyone believes them a couple? Did she not hear what she was yelling at him? That's not stuff you throw at your friend. And they make a good looking couple, but that's me being shallow. Not that that's a bad thing ;) And she follows that by saying "I think he left me". So who exactly is in denial because she's the only one that vehemently denies that they're a couple?
This was so wrong! You can't break our hearts AND take the TARDIS away from the Doctor. Talk about a panic.
Honey, you're in 1987, they don't have cell phones like that. Put it away!
I liked her reaction to seeing her parents argue. It sucks that their marriage isn't this perfect thing that Rose thought it was, but it's like we were talking about in one of my classes. When you go snooping where you don't belong, you're not gonna find something you like.
And while she's smiling, I hated that this was her reaction to seeing the Doctor come back. I know it was before she saw those horrid things, but look at her. She thinks she was right and he came back to her. But yet, she also seems sort of relieved. She just saw her parents make up and the Doctor's back.
But at least she recognizes that it's her fault. I like that the Doctor sort of walks away without answering. It's what she deserves for the moment.
So this is where I end this portion. I have lots more to go through, so don't miss the next part!
Part 2 should be up later tonight, but not too late.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 05:27 pm (UTC)This ep just has soooooo much... we learn so much about both and their relationship and about time. And the actors are so good and so perfect. You want to throttle Rose at times... but you are *supposed* to. You feel for both Rose and the Doctor. You want to shake the Doctor and ask what in the hell he was thinking going back a second time... but you know why too, or at least your heart understands.
The absolute depth of emotion of this ep is just unbelievable.
And I completely agree... I wanted to reach into the TV and slap that smile off her face when she saw the Doctor running back. In understand why she said what she did at the end of the argument... it is a typical teenage thing to me; he's hurt her unbelievable by demanding the key back, she can't face (yet) what she did wrong and she has to lash out and hurt him more back. Plus she's scared that he might mean it, after all; they did just leave Adam. BUT this smile is just annoying and pisses me off. Because she is sooo wrong and she shouldn't want to be right! She should be glad he's come back... but not happy about it... and there is a difference! She's relieved that he didn't leave her, but she's so wrong on why he's come back for her. I know that a part of that is us knowing this info, but I'd like to think in her heart, she'd be more relieved he hadn't left her than happy to be right, even though she realizes quite fast she's not!
Can't wait for part 2!
no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 06:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 09:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 09:12 pm (UTC)In understand why she said what she did at the end of the argument... it is a typical teenage thing to me
Exactly, which is why the argument is both adolescent and adult because it's about something extremely serious but they both act like teenagers (appropriate for her, and uncommonly appropriate for him).
Thanks for your lovely comments!
no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 05:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 06:32 pm (UTC)Suffice to say, I love your icon and that picture. :)
no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 07:56 pm (UTC)The icon isn't mine, it's made by the wonderful
no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 11:01 pm (UTC)I've been trying to find certain behind the scenes photos/videos, but they seem to have disappeared from their original homes. :(
no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 08:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 09:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 11:04 pm (UTC)It always looked like they were having so much fun. :)
The "hug" picture in particular looks like something that was deleted/edited out for whatever reason. Has he got the newspaper in his hand? That would mean it was from the very beginning of the eppy... interesting.
Thanks again. :)
no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 09:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 05:48 pm (UTC)I'm so glad I found your LJ. :D
no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 06:25 pm (UTC)Plus the pics and the review of the eps rock because it is Nine and Rose!
no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 09:20 pm (UTC)Thanks and not many can compare to Nine and Rose!
no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 09:18 pm (UTC)Thank you very much.
I'm so glad I found your LJ. :D
Me too! :)
no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 06:48 pm (UTC)*wonders how many versions of icons of the same scene can appear in one thread..* ;D
no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 09:24 pm (UTC)*wonders how many versions of icons of the same scene can appear in one thread..* ;D
I should count. ;) BTW, I really like yours.
these are great!
Date: 2006-05-16 06:57 pm (UTC)Re: these are great!
Date: 2006-05-16 09:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 09:50 pm (UTC)I think I can answer that one. My dad died when I was young. I'd say it's a little different since I actually knew him a bit, and Rose couldn't have known her dad (which would make her think he was a lot more "perfect" than he really was, I think). But even knowing my dad, there was a lot I forgot about him and if I didn't have other people's stories to remind me, I'd start thinking he was a bit more perfect than is possible for a person to be.
As for why Rose would be thinking of her dad suddenly... This is also address in "The Unquiet Dead." Gwen says to her, "You've been thinking of him more lately," or something to that intent, and she says something like, "Yeah, I suppose I have." I'm almost certain that having a man in her life, a real, older man, has reminded her of her dad.
I started dating a guy last year who's only 6 years older than me, and I noticed myself thinking about my dad a lot more, too. I started remembering all sorts of things I thought were completely forgotten. In a weird way, it's like it's the first male presence you've had in your life since childhood, and the only comparable thing is your father.
So, yeah. I think the Doctor is why Rose had been thinking of her dad. Which is interesting what that says about Mickey, you know? Mickey didn't make her think of her dad, because, bless his little heart, Mickey is nowhere near the man the Doctor is.
Thanks for these episode discussions! I really love these. Keep writing them and I'll keep reading them. :)
no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 11:56 pm (UTC)Thanks for these episode discussions! I really love these. Keep writing them and I'll keep reading them. :)
Then these will most definitely continue! ;)
no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 10:46 pm (UTC)Now, look at her fight with the Doctor. He certainly didn't hold back, considering that the first thing he does is accuse her of plotting to betray him from Day One. And the best thing she comes up with is that 'you wouldn't really leave me' shot at the end, which is really kind of sad and lame when you think about it. Not that it wasn't hurtful. That entire fight was one big emotional owie. But I think that at this point in their relationship, she could throw a lot worse at him, but wouldn't.
Looking forward to the next recap. I love these!
Re: No, I think you are right...
Date: 2006-05-17 12:06 am (UTC)Also, his asking for the key was particularly snarky...so he deserved a bit of cold shoulder.
Yeah, you've got to love that bit of logic, dontcha? 'Well, if I'm not more important to you than your own father, then I'm taking my key back.'
Crazy time-travelling kids.
Re: No, I think you are right...
Date: 2006-05-17 12:12 am (UTC)Aren't they?
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 12:00 am (UTC)That entire fight was one big emotional owie. But I think that at this point in their relationship, she could throw a lot worse at him, but wouldn't.
I completely agree.
Glad you enjoyed, hope to have the second part up sometime soon!
no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 11:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-16 11:57 pm (UTC)Re: Again...beautiful capping and recapping
Date: 2006-05-17 12:06 am (UTC)And I totally understand why she saved her dad and I do think that was a spur of the moment thing.
I love hearing from people that saw earlier Doctors and companions, I love to hear how different everything is and if they like it. I'm glad you enjoy how the new series has gone.
Thank you for your comments, and I hope to put up the second part soon.
Re: Again...beautiful capping and recapping
Date: 2006-05-17 02:53 am (UTC)This is absolutely one of my favorite episodes and the one that clinched my ship for these two. How anyone could watch this episode and NOT ship these two is beyond me (though my one friend who normally ships the same couples I do is resistant. Silly woman.) From the "Why does everyone think we're a couple?" to "You're just upset you're not the most important man in my life anymore" - hello, they act like a couple. there's so much emotion between those two and I thought it was great to see how Rose completely sees how sad he is, even though I flinched when she said that. She knows he needs her, which is a wonderful feeling really.
As for the smile - yeah, it was kind of smug, but there was a ton of relief and happiness in it too, so I forgive her.
I love these two!
Re: Again...beautiful capping and recapping
Date: 2006-05-17 02:57 am (UTC)I love these two!
I concur!
no subject
Date: 2006-05-17 08:35 pm (UTC)Rose and the Doctor shouting at one another is always upsetting, but I actually thought the Doctor was the one that was more out of line. He took her back in time to watch her dad about to be hit by a car, what did he think would happen?
What hurt me was the most was the Doctor saying, "I picked another stupid ape" when they were just discussing what had happened, and not fighting. I mean towards the end of the scene they were both shouting and lashing out, but I saw it as the Doctor being cruel first.
Rose's smile later on was way too smug though lol
no subject
Date: 2006-05-20 12:49 am (UTC)Yeah, as much as the Doctor had to be angry about, he definitely struck out first and unfairly. I should have pointed that out in my review.
Rose's smile later on was way too smug though lol
Yes, it was :)