Megan

I know! I've no push to watch the episodes anymore. I miss so much being excited about the show. But I will be watching the finale episodes, because I'm just too curious and I have to know what's going on and I've heard from a f-lister a nasty rumor and I just have to know first hand that's not gonna happen even though I know it doesn't.

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Hee I so OMG squeed. Especially since Rose looked so badass and the Doctor"s face lit up when he said yeah.

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I think part of his reaction was due to circumstances as Donna said no matter what's happening...That yeah made my shippy heart jump with fannish glee. The Doctor gets a look that only comes out with Rose and I have missed seeing him look so happy.

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Yeah I look forward to seeing what happens. RTD is finishing up and I think he will give an ending worthy of a great character. Bringing Rose back was an excellent decision on his part and I hope the story will do her credit. S3 lacked in many ways (it's like a chore) and so far S4 has rocked, so hopefully that will keep going. RTD has really put Who back on the map.

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Bwah icon love.

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I get that. I don't know what happened to my excitement for the show. And I think it was "The Last of the Time Lords", which it wasn't Martha leaving, looking back I should have seen that coming, but that episode was so beyond disappointing in so many ways and RTD crushed my soul somewhere somehow and any excitement I have towards this show is just...meh.

Hell, I don't even know if I'll be watching when Moffat takes over, I just might not care at all anymore.

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Heh, I can surprise myself with how long I last with shows. If fact, I just continued watching with S3 and more because I wanted to meet and get to know the new companions. Which is why, barring certain incidents with the finale, I'll probably tune into S5, just to see who's with him.

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whywastewords.livejournal.com

I agree entirely. I feel so disinterested in both the series and the trailer. And I was of the belief that there were more things happening in the entire second half of the series other than Rose Tyler returning - apparently not.

I've watched all of series 4, but simply for the sake of having watched it before I say it was mediocre - which it is. It's completely and utterly unremarkable. Donna is the only interesting part. I really think the change over from RTD to Moffat couldn't have come sooner.

RTD, by the end of series 3, had run out of steam in my opinion, and now for series 4 he's running on empty. He's basically throwing in all the leftover ideas and adding in whatever has drawn people in before - returning companions and the Daleks. Just endure the rest of RTD's reign, whether you watch or not, but definitely come back to the show for Moffat. No one can say for sure if he'll be a good show runner but the one thing that CAN be said is that his writing is a million miles from what RTD's is, and that's good enough for me.

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See, there was that article running around a little while ago, about people watching the same show, but also not, like Doctor Who. Some people are watching the Martha Jones Show, some Donna Noble show and others the Doctor/Rose Show or the Rose Tyler Show, and that's fine! But it really feels sometimes that RTD is writing for the Doctor/Rose Tyler Show and that's not cool and it makes me feel isolated.

It's hard for me because I've never had to force myself to watch this show. Never. And it feels like it's all coming to an end, just for those reasons you're stating. RTD is just running out.

I'm sure the show will feel much fresher with the change. I'm just curious if RTD will leave Moffat with a mess to clean up.

*has flashbacks to Gilmore Girls*

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This is Donna's one and only season. I'd like the spotlight to be on her, thanks.

That's my overriding reaction. It's bad enough Martha got saddled with all the references, but Donna's got the actual Rose (maybe) following her around and something (maybe Rose?) on her back. I've enjoyed Donna enormously this year, but the individual episodes are, to put it kindly, average to very weak - incredibly predictable, even the cracky ones. (They better not mess with Harriet either, or I'm getting out my hunting spoon.)

I'm a bit nervous about Moffat. He's either really good or really horrible (GITF, Coupling). I've only watched the first episode of Jekyll and just couldn't get the interest up to finish. On the other hand, The Curse of Fatal Death is possibly one of the best Who things ever.

I wouldn't mind the show just being fun and entertaining. The first series was something special. I rewatched "Rose" last night, and I was struck again by how fresh and subtle it was, despite all the plastic Mickey. I don't need to invest so heavily in the characters this time around, if they just let me enjoy them. I've started to realize that I never cared about Ten because they wanted me to so badly, but didn't give me any reason to. It was just "eat your peas/adore your Doctor, because I said so."

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Yes, that's probably why I'm having trouble. The characters, or character of Donna, is the only thing interesting. She's fantastic, but it's difficult when she gets mediocre stories. I WILL be done for sure if they mess with Harriet. I have a small list of things, and that's definitely one of them.

Yeah, Moffat has potential, but while he can write better than RTD, I'm not going to proclaim he'll run the show better. He'll hopefully be a breath of fresh air though. I, personally, think he did wonderfully with Jekyll, so I kinda am looking forward to seeing what he does.

Oh man, S1 was just pure gold. And they had something in S3 (IMHO), but just never followed through, and that had to be one of the most disappointing finales ever. Even if there were bits I loved, it was just...no words for that.

And Ten...he's not even a factor for me anymore. I've been purely reliant on the companion and the stories for two and a half years now.

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And Ten...he's not even a factor for me anymore. I've been purely reliant on the companion and the stories for two and a half years now.

That's becoming more and more the case for me - Donna helped enormously.

I guess I'll finish watching Jekyll. James Nesbitt is one of those actors who kind of repulses me; it's a gut-level instinct I can't quite shake - Nicolas Cage is another one, even though i'll be the first to say that I think Nesbitt is a better actor than either Cage or Tennant.

I was thinking about this yesterday, but the most "left-field" casting decisions they've made in New Who -– Christopher Eccleston - major, serious actor; Billie Piper, former pop tart; and Catherine Tate - comedienne – have been the most successful. Maybe they should learn something from that.

Moffat definitely has a better sense of overall structure than RTD; however, as funny as he is, he also seems to be a more arrogant egotist, which I'm not sure will work as well as a showrunner. (It's not that RTD doesn't have an ego, but he's a bit easier going, from what I've seen.) OTOH, maybe Moffat will impose more structure and discipline, and maybe that's exactly what they need. I'd like them to go with someone a bit less OTT for the next Doctor (they'd just about have to!), but Adrian Lester is campaigning for it, and he could be wonderful. Of the people in the running, he's rising as my favourite.

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*Pouts* I still can't believe you didn't like James Nesbitt in Cold Feet. Jekyll is cracktastic, but it is full of twists and I loved the actress who played Claire.

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Despite Helen Baxendale and Hermione Norris, both of whom I like quite a lot, I could never get into Cold Feet. Part of it was that James Nesbitt just doesn't do it for me, but I wasn't able to get into any of those big, 20-30-something romantic drama/comedies, like Cold Feet or This Life. OTOH, I was riveted to Our Friends in the North unlike just about anything I've ever seen. I think it's partly the quality of the acting, and partly the social/historical complexity that just made it more interesting. That said, the first episode of OFITN is really pure teen soap opera (played by 20-somethings, of course), but it's stunningly rich in the way we just drop in on these kids and get to know their histories and personalities so well by the end of 70 minutes.

Edited Date: 2008-05-25 05:26 pm (UTC)

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Sorry for cutting in, but I'm curious what Cold Feet is?

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Cold Feet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_Feet) To me it was an excellent series. It made me laugh, cry and had me hooked. I highly rec it.

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Hmm...I'll definitely have to keep that in mind to check out :)

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Huh, I almost feel weird than saying that just seeing Jekyll made me love James Nesbitt. Heh I've actually said that I would support Nesbitt as the next Doctor.

What are the chances Moffat could bring back CE as the Doctor? :D

I'm really hoping that Moffat does something to have a straight line and story for his series. Goodness knows his stories aren't always the best "fit" into the series, even if they are wonderfully written. I've heard about his ego. And I can't stand RTD's, so now I'm a little afraid for that.

So, now I must know who this Adrian Lester is!

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I'm not quite sure why I react so strongly against Nesbitt, it's just visceral. But as I said, he is a better actor than some of the others to whom I have a similar reaction! I don't really see him as Doctor material, though. I think I'd like someone either a bit more ethereal (Alexander Siddig, Julian Rhind-Tutt) or someone a bit older. Bill Paterson would be wonderful, but would they go for a second Scottish Doctor in a row? Lester is elegant and quick and smart, speaks and moves well, and is generally kind of the British Don Cheadle. And James Callis is going to be free from 2009, no?

I'm going to try to get into Jekyll. I have the time this week, I think.

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OH James Callis! Although, he's not my cup of tea, I think he'd get a following for being "hot". Especially if they keep his hair trimmed, which they would have to otherwise he'd scare off the kiddies.

He would be quite interesting though, he can do the charming/funny stuff, but I think he can pull off the manipulating part well if they wanted to do that. But I'd have a lot of trouble seeing him as intimidating, which tends to be how they write the Doctor at times. Thing is, I think he works best when he has strong material given to him, and honestly, DW isn't strong material.

You know, Sam Troughton just struck me as an intriguing choice. He can be very goofy, but I remember catching him on Hex and he can hit the serious very well, IMHO. Or, if they really want to steal from Robin Hood (which is rumored to be heading into it's last season) they could try Keith Allen.

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I think the major drawback for James Callis is that he's too similar to Tennant - atlhough I do think he's more intimidating than Tennant and might possibly have been able to pull off - or come closer - to Ten as written (underlined by an interesting weakness that could undercut his arrogance).

Sam Troughton would certainly be a sentimental favourite - although I can't quite see it. If they were going to go with someone that young (and someone from Robin Hood), I do think Harry Lloyd is a better actor (not that you can really tell it in RH). But he'd only be about 25, and that's just too young.

Keith Allen is an interesting choice but they would never go with him, I'll bet you, for the same reason CE was a shock - he's too aggressively working class. And moreso than CE, who at least is physically elegant and can speak with great speed and precision. I think KA's long history of playing sleazeballs and dolts would probably also work against him - they might go with Richard Armitage, who would be a bit obvious but not a disaster, just lazy.

Robert Lindsay? He's a song and dance man, he can do comedy and drama, he's in his late 50s but in very good shape.

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He is quite similar to Tennant, but you're right. I probably could have liked Ten if someone like Callis was playing him.

I'm sorry to say that Harry Lloyd never really impressed me, unfortunately. He's definitely too young. And same with Troughton, he's quite young as well, doesn't get as many fangirls though.

Heh, even I could see that KA would be out of the picture. But if they ever did, oh, he could be a Doctor up there with Nine, I bet. Richard Armitage wouldn't be so bad, but of the two roles I've seen him in, I don't think I've ever seen him smile, so it'd almost seem a stretch for him. Although, he could be another romantic Doctor like Tennant. A believably romantic one at least.

Not familiar with Robert Lindsey, but he looks good from the picture I'm looking at and he has quite a background.

I've become partial to Damian Lewis. He can pull it off, I'm almost positive of it. But I don't want him to ever leave Life unless it's canceled, it never should be, heh.

Edited Date: 2008-05-27 03:09 am (UTC)

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I guess I think more of Lloyd and less of Allen than you do - I though Harry Lloyd was excellent in DW (the flexibility of body language is really hard, and most people never get it - it's very rare to see it in someone so young); I also saw him in another series which I only later realized was him when he was in his late teens and he was surprisingly good.

KA is pretty much the same from role to role - I think it comes from his background as a comedian. I don't know that he has much range from what I've seen. Richard Armitage is also pretty much "dishy romantic lead", but he does have a nice, light touch and a sense of humour about himself, which a lot of very good-looking guys don't.

Damien Lewis is a good possibility, except for Life, of course. Although he doesn't move very fast from what I've seen - he's always got a kind of reserve that makes me wonder. He can be funny (he was a very good Benedick in the Much Ado with Billie Piper and Sarah Parrish), but there's something very...measured about him that doesn't quite seem Doctorish.

I had just thought of Robert Lindsay, but when I think about it, it does hit a lot of the buttons I want - an older Doctor, someone smart and fun and light on his feet, but who can give depth when needed. I'm hoping that we might go to something more stand-alone, less arc-y with Moffat. It worked brilliantly in S1 but has actually been a detriment since, IMO. Already I feel like Donna's run is being overshadowed even more than Martha's, as we discussed.

And in the true spirit of British one degree of separation - Robert Lindsay's wife in My Family is played by Zoë Wanamaker, who played Cassandra!

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I've seen less of both actors than you, and Robin Hood is quite limited to guess on an actor's style. And I don't feel I can be a proper judge with that.

I think something that comes down to it for me, is something that I don't necessary need for a Doctor, I just want someone who can do it convincingly, and that's the intimidation card. Tennant doesn't do it in any shape or form, and Lewis does. He shook me when I watched Life, he's not over the top, he's quiet and you can't truly guess where he's going. There's actually something about his acting on Life that sort of reminds me of CE. It could just be me. He seems so eccentric on the show, I'd quite like to see what he could pull off as the Doctor.

I love the idea of something more stand-alone, but they need to be careful with characterization and relationships (or it's another repeat of S2 *shudders*).

Edited Date: 2008-05-27 03:52 am (UTC)

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I guess our conversation was rattling around in my head last night when I went to bed, because I had a dream that included Keith Allen as an obnoxious thug! I think he's just been so many of those that I've seen, it's hard to shake... and, in another "one-degree", his was the corpse that CE's David had to dismember in Shallow Grave, setting in motion David's descent into insanity.... The connections are just so weird.

It's interesting, I was thinking about the intimidation factor in a Doctor. I think Nine may have been an aberration in that regard. Three had his Venusian Aikido, and Four was tall enough and more intense in the early episodes, and Six was all bluster and temper, but really threatening, Nine seems to be alone in his ability to channel that sense of cosmic power - the others were mostly eccentric and smart and conniving. Which is not a bad thing, I think Ten has suffered from the way that they're writing him as if Tennant could be as powerful as CE, which he can't, so he comes off looking petty and stupid.

Lewis would certainly be better than Tennant at being intimidating. It tends to come out in flashes rather than being a constant potential. I haven't watched all of Life, got derailed.

Moffat is terrible at relationships - when I think about the relationships in his episodes, they're all pretty much love at first sight, in one way or another, although the chemistry between CE and Florence Hoath, or Carey Mulligan and Michael Obiora can sell it in the way that David Tennant and Sophia Myles failed to do. And Sally and Larry just didn't work at all for me because the actor was so incredibly bland against CM's vibrancy, it just didn't make sense. That means that casting has to be absolutely dead-on.

Edited Date: 2008-05-27 04:42 pm (UTC)

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