Doctor Who
Jul. 5th, 2006 02:43 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
meganlynn09I first saw it in March, and didn't really watch it again, I was too busy re-watching "The End of the World", which has become probably my favorite series one episode, and "The Unquiet Dead", which is probably the most underrated episode of series one.
May have references to series one and series two episodes, all the way up to "Army of Ghosts". But not THAT spoiler, nothing beyond AoG, and nothing important from that episode. Also, talk about series two.
And I never noticed the nuances put into the performances. Billie had her best moment at the end when she first turned down the Doctor's offer. Read the TWoP re-cap of "Rose", where Jacob describes her expression wonderfully. And Chris, never disappointed.
Fun little gate between this episode and series two's "The Idiot's Lantern". The dad's "I AM TALKING!"? Line stolen right from the Doctor when he was addressing the Nestene Consciousness. Except, when Nine says it, you're gonna want to stop and listen. ;)
Fave lines/moments:
When they are in the elevator (American word for lift, I believe), and the Doctor pulls one of the arms off, tosses it back to Rose. I love that little move she makes to catch it. Because you're like, it's a dummy's arm, who cares, but you'd still catch it.
When Rose wakes up, she had the most awesome bedhead.
DOCTOR
What're you doing here?
ROSE
I live here.
DOCTOR
Well, what do you do that for?
It makes me giggle everytime, it's the reactions and the line delivery. Actually, that's probably the whole reason that I love this episode so much.
When Jackie's flirting with the Doctor. HAHA. Their relationship sure has come a long way. My, how times have changed. Now she's making out with him and calling him her own.
The whole scene starting from when they leave her flat to when he gives his big speech, that's why drew me into Rose and the Doctor. They easy feeling between them, and I don't mean chemistry in just a romantic or sexual way, they could have a very easy friendship. I love it. I love them, I miss them.
Okay, tangent. CE and BP were amazing in series one. People may not have liked their relationship, and maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it was so wonderful to see. It was sort of natural, sort of not, but sort of normal. She was, I guess, a normal 19 year old. I say I guess because being that age, I can tell you right now that I never acted like she did. Maybe I wouldn't have been so brave as she sometimes was, but I wouldn't have been such a selfish ass at times ("Boom Town"). Anyway, with David Tennant and BP, the relationship changed. It was supposed to.
I keep seeing people get upset over people comparing Nine/Rose and Ten/Rose, because they are different. Not only are they supposed to be different, we're supposed to notice. Excusing "New Earth", because I didn't like how they were presented in that episode, I've kinda liked how things are. "Tooth and Claw" was sort of perfect in terms of showing off the relationship, the high of being alive and seemingly unconquerable (if that's a word), made them cocky, and they got quite a slap for that. "School Reunion" was sort of weird because they seemed a little distant. Maybe because they were working with Mickey and then running into Sarah Jane didn't help. I love that episode so much, that the complaints I sort of ignore, even if they are valid.
"Girl in the Fireplace" would have been a lot better if they could have sold the love story. I tried, I love the story with the, what were they called, I forgot, the clock droids. They were awesome. I see where the writer was going, and yeah, I had some major problems with the Doctor leaving Rose and Mickey behind. But as much as he had to save Reinette because he wanted to, he sort of had to, to stop history from changing, that's his job if he had one.
With the next two episodes, we have the Doctor trying to keep a tight leash on Rose, and to an extent on Mickey as well. But, of course, Rose is his main concern. Personally, if the Doctor had known more about Mickey, I think he would have gone after him instead. I dunno. The beginning of "Rise of the Cybermen" was sort of jarring compared to GitF. Makes one wonder what happened between episodes. And why Mickey's left out when he was the understanding one towards the Doctor at the end of GitF, well the one who really understood what the Doctor needed at the end. Anyway, the first two-parter leaves us with just the Doctor and Rose again. Why can't we have another companion for more than three episodes? Anyway, again, Mickey leaves. Makes me sad because I finally like Mickey.
With "The Idiot's Lantern", they work very much as a team, get those cute/bordering annoying moments. Then Rose gets her face sucked off and the Doctor gets supremely angry and upset. See, people point out that Nine was needy and with Ten, not so much. But, he's become, by this stage, very dependent on her constant presence. Since she's been there, others have come and gone, but she's still there, and he's getting very used to that, no matter what he said in "School Reunion". And then two of my fave episodes of series two, "The Impossible Planet" and "The Satan Pit". I love the writer of both, I hope he comes back to do more. The relationship that he wrote between the Doctor and Rose was wonderful, most notably in TIP.
The "mortgage" conversation. I've already covered this before. I'll repeat what I said then:
"And then he really freaks when Rose mentions they share that house. That was a major case of Rose sticking her foot in her mouth. She just witnessed him completely wigging out about settling down and then she just completely throws in his face, "Let’s get a house together". At least, that’s how he sees it. I don’t think she was really thinking anything other than the fact that it just sort of hit her, that hey, they lived together on the TARDIS, why not continue that? But then she must not have been thinking very hard, because she didn’t seem to notice that all this about houses and mortgages was just killing him to think about. Being stuck, standing still, sticking around after he saves the day, it‘s a life he’ll never have because he won‘t allow himself to have that. No consequences."
So, with TSP, they're separated. The "devil" talks about everyone's fear and sort of predicts that Rose will die in battle, which I sort of find ridiculous. Just for the fact that 1) he's the father of lies and 2) he really can't make very good predictions. Anyway. And that wonderful reunion hug that I just LOVED.
We don't see them very much in "Love and Monsters", which is okay. I loved Elton though. But I did love that bit in the beginning with the two of them running around like that.
"Fear Her". I loved that episode, I really did. I could have done without all the repetition of love love love, but it can be forgiven because Rose was love this episode. The relationship was really good in this episode and I really do love Ten/Rose, just not for the same reasons I love Nine/Rose. Anyway, as much as I loved it, and I do mean LOVED IT, how unfair of it was the Doctor to just throw that line "I was a dad once" in Rose's face and IGNORE THE FACT THAT HE DID. And yeah, I was smiling when I saw them holding hands at the end. About damn time to see that again.
"Army of Ghosts". The teaser sort of made me cry. Not just because OMG NINE, and not because that "Forever" anvil hit me on the head, but because, I dunno. After listening to what she said, and then that picture of her on that beach, the music started, I got teary-eyed. And then laughed my ass off when Jackie started kissing the Doctor. I went back to watch it a couple times. I think Rose was laughing just as hard.
I think one of my favorite little moments though, was when Rose was caught and shown to the Doctor on Yvonne's computer and he said he didn't know her, like it was nothing, and then they said they'd shoot her, I love how he's like, "I frickin' tried at least," with a huge ol' sigh. And then, "Don't tell anyone that her mom traveled with me, I'll lost my cred." Fabulous.
No predictions for "Doomsday". Too many theories floating about, I don't want to throw mine out there.
***I guess what I was really getting at was that the relationship is different because with Nine/Rose, it was building and with Ten/Rose it's established, so it's, IMHO, unfair to compare the two.***
So, back to "Rose".
The Doctor's speech about who he is? Fantastic. No, really, watch CE's face, listen to him, it's really amazing how he just owns that speech.
When the Doctor pulls Fake!Mickey's head off at the restaurant, and the guy in front of him screams? Never fails to crack me up, I don't know why. I can be quite easy for laughs.
DOCTOR
Look, if I did forget some kid called Mickey--
ROSE
Yeah, he's not a kid.
DOCTOR
It's because I'm trying to save the life of every stupid ape blundering on top of this planet, alright??
ROSE
Alright!
DOCTOR
Yes! It is!
Not only do I love this little argument, and how Chris plays it, but Billie's delivery of "Alright?!" is just too perfect for words. Seriously, go back and watch it, tell me it's not awesome. I'm running out of adjectives. Sorry.
HAHA, he pets the TARDIS. Hem, anyway.
DOCTOR
Think of it. Plastic, all over the world. Every artificial thing waiting to come alive. The shop window dummies, the phones, the wires, the cables...
ROSE
The breast implants...
LMAO, I didn't know that's what she was saying! That's too funny. Again, sorry.
I like that when they climb down the ladder, that he doesn't help her, but when he steps away from the ladder, he watches her until she's off. It's the details people, I love them all.
I love that from the beginning how much it's all about her mom for Rose. Before she even thinks about getting herself and Mickey out of there, she calls her mom to warn her. It's one of the biggest consistencies with Rose's character and for that I'm thankful.
The Nestene Consciousness says Time Lord at one point.
When Rose is swinging, the Doctor actually says her name before he catches her. I don't know why I pointed that out, I just did.
DOCTOR
Yes, I would. Thank you. Right then! I'll be off! Unless, uh... I don't know... you could come with me.
He's so cute when he tilts his head to the side, like he's asking her to a middle school dance (um, like asking her out when they're 14). I wanted to give him a big fat hug!
And she says no and immediately regrets it, but can't really say anything. She just stares, and knows she just gave up the best thing that could have happened to her and she can't take it back. As I know others have pointed out, she doesn't even need him to say anything, he comes back, she's going.
God, the love I have for this show. And Rose isn't even my fave, that's saved for EotW. And SR, and TEC and TDD and TPotW and TIP and FH. Naw, I just really love all those episodes. A lot.
So, there's that.
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Date: 2006-07-05 09:17 pm (UTC)HAHA, he pets the TARDIS. Hem, anyway. So funny when he does that. Especially after School Reunion, after SJS asked if he still pets parts of it. =D
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Date: 2006-07-05 09:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-05 09:17 pm (UTC)I'm a Ten/Rose girl all the way, but I just absolutely love the interaction between her and Nine, which - I don't care what anyway says - was markedly different than it is with Ten. Nine was never overtly romantic, it was subtle. You saw his love for her in his eyes, in his glances, but it was never An Issue. Not as much as it suddenly became with her and Ten.
Whether it was because of Rose's maturing, her changing attitudes, and the Doctor's younger look, all of a sudden, they were a ship. And a canon ship at that. Everyone was waiting for the big Ten/Rose moments. And god, how I loved all of the Ten/Rose moments we've had, but the Nine/Rose moments, I found much less... forced? Is that the word I'm looking for?
Like when they dance at the end of The Doctor Dances. It's just so natural for them to head right toward one another and do a two-step around the TARDIS! With Ten, he's just so loud and boisterous, it could've been a different moment. I definitely had loved all of the Nine/Rose moments anyway, just as much as I love the Ten/Rose ones.
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Date: 2006-07-05 09:41 pm (UTC)A lot of Nine/Rose moments did seem less forced, but I think a lot of the writing for series two could be to blame. And I do like a lot of the Ten/Rose moments as well, but some of them are so over the top ("New Earth" immediately comes to mind) that I wonder what happened to the subtle moments from series one.
I'm a Ten/Rose girl all the way, but I just absolutely love the interaction between her and Nine, which - I don't care what anyway says - was markedly different than it is with Ten.
Their interactions are different because yeah, there is a certain chemistry between the actors, it's different, you can't replicate what it was because you have a different actor. I think I'm a Nine/Rose girl, even though I do adore some GOOD Ten/Rose. And some of the wonderful fic I've read with Ten/Rose has really helped.
With Ten, he's just so loud and boisterous, it could've been a different moment.
I'm going to use this as an example of where I have a small problem. Not with you or what you said, but others similar. I have a small problem with comparing the two Doctors because they are so different. I sometimes can't help it, but I don't really like thinking how different one scene would be if Nine were doing it instead of Ten and vice versa. Sometimes I feel like the shipper wars are soon going to involve Ten/Rose vs. Nine/Rose and I don't like that feeling.
Thank you for commenting! I hope I wasn't being mean or seem like I'm trying to force my opinion, I just sometimes have trouble getting it acrossed. Thanks!
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Date: 2006-07-05 09:52 pm (UTC)I've really been so steeped in the Ten/Rose part of the LJ community, it's really nice to read some commentary from someone who's a fan of both Nine and Ten, and hasn't picked one over the other.
While I write Ten fiction, and tend to be more of a fangirl over Ten, I have grown to adore series 1 because of Nine. He was just so unlikely. I mean, who would've thought that a Doctor with a thick Northern accent, dressed constantly in a black leather jacket and with sticky-outy ears could've worked so well? And yet he did, beautifully so.
I've enjoyed your commentary, and am definitely going to be coasting back through your journal for all of your commentary on series 1 and 2 episodes!
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Date: 2006-07-05 09:57 pm (UTC)I've enjoyed your commentary, and am definitely going to be coasting back through your journal for all of your commentary on series 1 and 2 episodes!
Oh enjoy, I've done a lot, like over ten, so you've got a couple to look at, plus they have picures!
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Date: 2006-07-05 10:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-05 10:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-06 06:03 am (UTC)This episode is occasionally goofy, but then also occasionally breathtaking.
I get a kick out of Rose and the phone - hanging up on the woman who has a friend on the Mirror, and then calling up her Mum during the invasion just to make sure she's still alive. She doesn't need or want to talk to her, just check. Rose is definitely the adult in that relationship.
I also love that conversation around the catflap. I love the way his voice breaks a little on "What you wanna do that for?"
He's so cute when he tilts his head to the side, like he's asking her to a middle school dance (um, like asking her out when they're 14).
I know. Awww. That's the amazing thing about Nine to me. He's powerful and terrifying and deeply alien, and yet also so childlike (as opposed to childish) and somehow innocent.
Their chemistry is just so...powerful, and so different from the sort of relationship you normally see. Their entire walk and talk in Rose completely sold me. Actually, CE's "ow" (see icon) when she smacked him with the arm kicks off a whole sequence of interaction that culminates in that heartstopping "turning of the world" speech. And the way that "hands" are just as much a part of their arc as "Bad Wolf" right from "Run!"
And I agree with you on The Unquiet Dead. It's also a whole lot funnier than people remember. But it also has a couple of remarkably potent scenes between the two of them, the "better with two" at the beginning and the "so glad I met you" near the end.
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Date: 2006-07-06 04:27 pm (UTC)Pretty damn cool coincidence!
I get a kick out of Rose and the phone
Oh, it's great. She does something similar in World War III, when she asks Mickey over the phone if her mom is alright, but don't put her on! It's great.
Their chemistry is just so...powerful, and so different from the sort of relationship you normally see.
It is, which is wonderful because then they don't have to push it. "The Doctor Dances" wouldn't have worked so well if they didn't have that chemistry because it just feels so natural for them to dance in that episode, as another person who commented pointed out.
Actually, CE's "ow" (see icon) when she smacked him with the arm
Oh, I love that little moment. He just reacts like it really hurt when she only tapped him, it was funny.
And I agree with you on The Unquiet Dead.
I think it's a lot shippier than people might remember. I remember first watching this, and I kept thinking, WOW, they are hot. I was completely blown away. And he's very...physical?...in protecting Rose. I don't think many people remember that he KICKED down a door to get to her, had a nice hold on her waist and my fave bit, when he shoves them behind a gate he has his hand like spread out on the front of her waist and pushes her back. I think that's why on second viewing I was so surprised they weren't sexing it up before Aliens of London. He was supremely hot in that episode (TUD).
Anyway, lovely comment and discussion, as usual.
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Date: 2006-07-06 08:03 pm (UTC)M: Pretty damn cool coincidence!
Wee bit spooky, but cool, indeed!
It is, which is wonderful because then they don't have to push it.
It's hard to articulate, because we're not used to speaking about the nuances of body language, but even though we get more "shippy" moments with Ten, I get far more emotional/sexual charge off Nine and Rose. With Ten, they talk about it, they do things, but Nine all they had to do was look at each other, or heck, be in the same space. I love that scene (I think you pointed out some of this in your screencap review of The Doctor Dances) when Jack first really talks to the two of them, and he calls them U-Boot Commander and Flag Girl. It's been Jack and Rose flirting, but the minute she's back within the Doctor's orbit, her body language is completely mirroring his. The way he looks at her, and the way she leans into him (see icon), these are extraordinary.
I love that little moment. He just reacts like it really hurt when she only tapped him, it was funny.
I think he's a lot funnier than most people give him credit for, because mostly it's very dry or subtle. Here, it's just about good timing. It's similar to his flirting with Jack, which literally is like "dancing" to a particular rhythm.
I remember first watching this, and I kept thinking, WOW, they are hot. I was completely blown away.
I do agree. I came into the new series knowing that Doctor/companion just wasn't done. "Rose" gave me a few moments where I thought, "Bloody 'eck, what's going on here?" because they had just met and already had absolutely no sense of personal space. The end of EOTW obviously has that lovely final scene, which apparently leads right into The Unquiet Dead, wherein we start off with them tumbling together on the floor. And then that combustible conversation about where to go. When she leans into him and says, "Better with two," and he grins, that's hotter than any kiss, IMO. And so forth throughout the episode.
I know it's been said that the "I could save the world but lose you," in WWIII happens so early that it seems "unearned", and I'd agree but for the fact that they completely sell it. They outperform the writers.
I guess what I'm saying is that they don't have to say or act out anything - it's all in the way they just are together. And what they are together is very hot. And frankly, I also like the way they look together - although that's a bit chicken-and-egg given the chemistry.
He was supremely hot in that episode
He usually is. He has that prowling panther thing going on that's just always sexy. CE may be the only power!nerd in the acting biz!
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Date: 2006-07-06 08:13 pm (UTC)She does it all through the scene, it's wonderful. But I think my favorite little moment in TDD is when Rose uses Jack's blaster and they all fall down, before Rose even gets up she asks the Doctor if he's alright. It's just very quick, and I liked that because it gives the audience that little inkling that while she likes flirting with Jack, it's still all about the Doctor.
They outperform the writers.
That happens a hell of a lot, maybe a little too much for my liking. "Dalek" comes to mind, and TWoP agrees. The writing for that episode was a terrible letdown, one can only thank God that they had CE and BP for it.
And what they are together is very hot.
Most definitely.
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Date: 2006-07-06 09:59 pm (UTC)I love that, too. There's a kind of resonance in POTW when he hugs her after the Dalek gets blasted and she soooo wants that hug to last longer, but there's business to be tended to. It's such a little moment, but a great detail. This also links into the actors outperforming the writers - they really do (although I still think the writing was more consistent in S1). Maybe that's not happening quite so much anymore, which is why it feels so much more fragmented. But the little details in the performances in S1 are fabulous, from both BP and CE. I expect it from him (have you seen Othello yet?), but she was a revelation.
I liked that because it gives the audience that little inkling that while she likes flirting with Jack, it's still all about the Doctor.
I know dramatically why they couldn't do it (gives away too much too soon), but I was surprised that Rose's psychic paper didn't say something along the lines of "you're cute, you're like him, but with dating and dancing". Although I still don't like the implication woven through both series and in some of the comments I've seen from people behind the scenes that CE's/Nine's looks are a problem, that he's not attractive. He may not be classically handsome (neither, frankly, is David Tennant, although John Barrowman is), but he's got plenty of other things going for him.
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Date: 2006-07-06 10:53 pm (UTC)I'm such a girl at that moment because it's so sweet, and Billie plays it with vulnerablility, it's beautiful and heartbreaking that you almost expect her to pull him back.
although I still think the writing was more consistent in S1
Oh, it most definitely was, but I can see some strings pulling together the episodes in series 2, I might make a post about it later even.
Still haven't seen Othello, but I'll try. :)
I've seen from people behind the scenes that CE's/Nine's looks are a problem, that he's not attractive. He may not be classically handsome (neither, frankly, is David Tennant
*blinks* A problem? *blinks some more* Am I blinded by my CE/Nine love? Because he is hot, as we've established. ;) And hey David's cute, but look at him from the side and the boy's got a nose on him. Like you said, neither of them are classically handsome, but they most definitely have their moments, and David actually had some wonderful ones in "Fear Her", he could definitely wear his shirt open like that more often. Ahem.
but he's got plenty of other things going for him.
Oh yeah.
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Date: 2006-07-07 02:55 am (UTC)She has her fingers on his lapel like she's just about to do it...
I can see some strings pulling together the episodes in series 2,
I can see a few, but they're not very subtle. Everything feels uncomfortably clunky, alas.
*blinks* A problem? *blinks some more* Am I blinded by my CE/Nine love? Because he is hot, as we've established. ;)
Yes, it's well-established. ;-) And I think part of his appeal is his flexibility and intensity as an actor - but then there are the cheekbones, the eyes, and the way he moves. And DT has nice eyes (although one of them drifts a little), but he also has quite the nose (has anyone measured/compared?! *lol*) and a slight underbite. So it's not all that "obvious", which is what is often suggested - or flat out stated.
I perhaps phrased it badly, but what I see is a lot of comments like "Now that we have a really good-looking Doctor who is sexy" (and I'm thinking, well, Peter Davison was fairly good-looking, Paul McGann was really very pretty, though none of them are as sexy as CE in my book...). Or Matthew Graham, who wrote "Fear Her" said, "CE is a fine, fine actor, but he's not exactly charming," which begs the question, "Define charming?" It's that kind of back-handed swipe that leaves a bad taste.
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Date: 2006-07-07 03:01 am (UTC)Well, they're not. And I remember reading that comment about CE not being charming, and had the same reaction you did "Define charming?" because I disagreed. So, maybe people find DT more charming, but CE had more of the sex appeal, IMHO.
It's that kind of back-handed swipe that leaves a bad taste.
Yeah, I know what you mean, especially because I don't think that writer did any of the episodes from last series, so he probably never got to work with CE, and it just leaves a worst taste. (Please tell me if I'm wrong)
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Date: 2006-07-07 03:20 am (UTC)Ironically, I've actually been struck by how many actresses seem to be absolutely smitten with CE even long after they've worked with him (Kate Winslet, Renee Zellweger, for instance), and how many journalists start off by saying, "You expect him to be a sour ol' grumpy-puss, but actually, he's really alarmingly relaxed and funny and self-deprecating" - which sounds like one kind of charming to me. I can even see that DT might be charming off-screen, but I don't find his performance charming, and I could give you some reasons. One might not agree with them, but they are valid.
CE to me is sexy because of that combination of power, grace, and vulnerability. He's an alpha male with an almost uncomfortably sensitive side (so "new man", isn't it?). But it works for me. DT doesn't work for me in the same way because he's too juvenile. And it's not a matter of age, because despite a doofy haircut, CE had his sexy moments in Cracker, and he wasn't even 30 yet.
It's the blanket proclamations that bother me, or the way people assume that your tastes have to conform to theirs or they're wrong.
Not to mention taking pot shots at someone who was undoubtedly a huge reason for the show's success. I'm not sure they'd be ordering another series if S2 had been S1.
I don't think that writer did any of the episodes from last series, so he probably never got to work with CE, and it just leaves a worst taste. (Please tell me if I'm wrong)
No, I think you're right.
I do think it's also interesting that Joe Ahearne (who directed Dalek, Father's Day, Bad Wolf, and Parting of the Ways - so, not a bad record there!), is now doing two projects with CE.
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Date: 2006-07-07 03:43 am (UTC)I want to add something, what I don't possibly know, but I caught a nasty cold and I should wait until morning when I have something worth saying, but I really don't think I could add anything to what you said!
I do think it's also interesting that Joe Ahearne (who directed Dalek, Father's Day, Bad Wolf, and Parting of the Ways - so, not a bad record there!), is now doing two projects with CE.
That director must like CE, because those were his most powerful episodes, in my opinion. Some of his most amazing moments in the show, acting/dramatic related. Good to see he's doing more with him.
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Date: 2006-07-07 03:53 am (UTC)That director must like CE, because those were his most powerful episodes, in my opinion. Some of his most amazing moments in the show, acting/dramatic related. Good to see he's doing more with him.
CE's career is quite striking in that he almost always works with people over and over again - Michael Winterbottom, Jimmy McGovern, Danny Boyle, Alex Cox, Bill Gallagher, Russell T. Davies, Paul Abbott, now Joe Ahearne - and these are all the most impressive names in British television, which is more like being big in indy films than American television.
Orange juice, aspirin, and bed!
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Date: 2006-07-07 02:14 pm (UTC)Advice well taken, thank you!
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Date: 2006-07-14 01:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-14 09:34 pm (UTC)