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Sep. 6th, 2006 12:05 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
meganlynn09There are always these two episodes of ER that always make me bawl. And it never matters how many times I see it, I always cry when I watch them. And I've seen them both at least 3 or 4 times, because ER repeats every weekday on TNT and I watch it.
One of those episodes was on this morning, and without fail, I cried. Doctor Who, as heartbreaking as two or three of their episodes are, never made me do this, nothing really has. ER just has this special place in my heart, and even though I am extra sensitive to things on TV and it's not really that hard to make me cry, it's easy to hold in on repeated viewings. Which is why I mentioned DW, because their episodes "The Parting of the Ways" and even "Doomsday" made me cry on first viewing, but never again except TPotW that one other time. These episodes on ER call up the waterworks EVERY FUCKING TIME.
More under the cut because I believe someone on my flist probably has no clue about these episodes. And I don't want to ruin it for her.
The other episode is when Mark Greene dies. Seriously, that's tragedy. Because you just watch him failing and then he tells his wife about the things he wanted to do, and it breaks my heart and his one daughter almost hates him and his other is a baby that can't understand what's happening and the ER gets one last letter from him that ends with his wife informing him that he died.
It was actually after this episode that I really just started to get disinterested. They lost most of what I loved and none of it was the same anymore.
But I'll always have those two episodes to make me cry.
Anyone else have that one episode, of anything, that they just can't get over? Gets you everytime and you just cry and cry?
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Date: 2006-09-06 04:54 pm (UTC)As painful as it is, I love that it takes Lucy so long to die. I don't mean that in a cruel way, I mean that it seems realistic. The thing that always kills me is that she knows what's wrong with her. The only other TV death that out-angsts this one (just a smidge) is Bilborough's in Cracker for the same reasons - these characters that we love die in some senseless stabbing and slowly slip away before our eyes, even as everyone else is trying so hard to save them. And, on a totally different tack, this performance on ER was the moment I realized that David Krumholtz had well and truly grown up; he was so believably slipping away, and that scream when they do the spinal tap is heartbreaking (it took me watching a second time to realize why Paul stabbed them - they hurt him). Another comparison to Cracker is that the person committing the crime is someone whom we've come to understand and even care about, and that makes it all the worse (I have to admit, the similarities are so striking, I suspect that the writers of ER are well familiar with Cracker.)
I was just chatting to someone else this morning about shows that jump the shark. I think both ER and DW haven't so much jumped the shark as fallen into the pool with them. They might yet surface and swim out of it, but there's no guarantee...
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Date: 2006-09-06 05:02 pm (UTC)he was so believably slipping away, and that scream when they do the spinal tap is heartbreaking (it took me watching a second time to realize why Paul stabbed them - they hurt him
That's what my mom was telling me, they stabbed him and then he was yelling about protecting his organs. It was sad to watch.
David Krumholtz didn't even remind of the boy that I watched as the funny kid and goofy kid in a couple 90's movies. He just did so well here.
I think both ER and DW haven't so much jumped the shark as fallen into the pool with them.
I don't think DW has fallen the way ER has, but ER just had the problem that when they brought in new characters, they didn't give them the treatment they gave to other characters, like Lucy and Carter and others like them. The only characters I even remotely still care about are Abby and Luka. I don't think ER can really surface again.
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Date: 2006-09-06 05:19 pm (UTC)Yeah, I was so emotional the first time, I didn't catch it! But I love an actor who can descend into madness and make it smooth and believable (my first sighting of CE was Shallow Grave, so, yeah, consistent there!). Have you ever seen DK's Law & Order episode, the one about the troubled boy who was then abused by his psychiatrist, who was shot on a Jerry Springer-type show? He was fifteen, looked twelve, and was just astonishing. But Paul Sobriki still surprised me.
I agree, ER has completely lost the plot. I love Luka and Abby, because the actors are so good (my favourite Luka moment - doing Hamlet in Croatian), but the stories have just unravelled. And to be fair, I don't think many of the new crew are as good. I'm not a Clooney acting fan (I like him okay as a person, but Doug Ross was one of my least favourite characters ever - for acting in that family, go to cousin Miguel), but he at least held the screen. I can't even keep track of who's on there anymore - though just to continue six degrees of separation, DK played Linda Cardellini (Sam)'s first love on Freaks and Geeks.
I'm hoping that things come together for DW next year. I hope the script editing is better. I hope Freema Agyeman shows us something she didn't in Army of Ghosts, and I hope someone shoots DT full of Ritalin so he'll stop pulling faces all the time. If he can just rise to the performance level of Casanova - cartoonish, but not Tex Avery cartoonish - I will be much happier. Sad to say, I'm glad Rose is gone. I just didn't like that relationship. Speaking of which that story was finished. I dunno. Regeneration = new start just seems like cheating for me, especially when he regenerates into someone less emotionally available. Talky/emotional Ten doesn't ring true to me. He spends all his time avoiding those issues, whereas I think Nine would talk if Rose sat him down and said, "Talk to me." He needs permission because he doesn't trust or believe in himself, and letting Ten "heal" it just feels like Nine was robbed of the rewards of all the hard work he's done. I know they're the same guy, but they're also not.
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Date: 2006-09-06 08:32 pm (UTC)I haven't caught much Law & Order, in fact the few I have seem to be the same ones.
I love Luka and Abby, because the actors are so good (my favourite Luka moment - doing Hamlet in Croatian)
That's why I love them too, and both characters have come so far and they have something to show for it. It's funny that that's your favorite moment for Luka, that happens in my favorite episode.
Yeah, I finished that story. It just so disappointed me that Nine regenerated and it took a lot of my enjoyment away. And I think what it has to do is what you said, he's the same and he's not. But the thing is, the only thing that remains the same is his memory and some of his feelings. He really is a new man, that's one of the things in TCI, what sort of man is he now, because he's changed. You really can't hold Ten responsible for Nine's actions because Ten might not have made the same actions. It's frustrating to the point where I want to rip my hair out because not many seem to really understand that!
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Date: 2006-09-08 03:45 am (UTC)Ha ha, I know what you mean. Isn't it weird? Here's a show that's been running for freakin' ever, repeats all the time, and you keep catching the same eps? Surely there's some statistic equation related to chaos theory that could explain it.
It's funny that that's your favorite moment for Luka, that happens in my favorite episode.
That's definitely my favourite of the later seasons. Goran Visjnic is an amazing actor, and great screen presence. I remember him in the Madonna video - there's such a difference between an actor and a model in a music video. CE in the I Am Kloot, Alan Rickman in "In Demand", Gina Gershon in that Lenny Kravitz video I can never remember the name of...
It just so disappointed me that Nine regenerated and it took a lot of my enjoyment away.
Sigh. I know. I feel like I want to tell her, not because I want to hurt her feelings, but because I genuinely don't think the characters would behave that way. I don't think Nine would actually turn his back on Rose (I could believe that of Ten, ironically, because he wouldn't want things to get messy); but if he did, turning into Ten wouldn't fix it, because of that lack of emotional openness.
And yes, it cuts both ways. You can't blame Ten for Nine's actions; but then Ten can't expect the same responses as Nine would have gotten, either. Ten is lighter, more fun (perhaps), and more jolly, but also more emotionally contained; Nine is moodier and carries more pain, but he's also more affectionate and flirty. And, as we saw in EOTW, he can be flirty and in pain at the same time!
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Date: 2006-09-08 04:02 am (UTC)He really is, and I love what he does as Luka. I mean, look at some of the things he done (the character), I have every right to hate him, how he treated Abby when they first broke up, how he hit on Abby when she was with Carter, how quickly they were together after Sam, and yet he's able to create this real character that I feel for and I just love him.
As much as I don't like how the show is now, there was always one thing that I will never forgive the writers for and that was for what they did to the Abby/Carter relationship. There was this wonderful friendship that turned to something more, and what did they do? Completely and utterly ruined it. I'm still so bitter about it. I mean, with that season when they were a couple, they did this amazing arc with Abby where she basically grew up, I remember a scene where she kept telling Carter to stay and talk to her when they were arguing, and if that had taken place a season before, she wouldn't have been doing that. I'm just so mad about it still.
And, as we saw in EOTW, he can be flirty and in pain at the same time!
I find it funny that people keep calling Ten the alien slut, when clearly that title belongs to Nine. There's Rose, Jabe, Gwyneth got a kiss 'cause she died, Suki, Cathica in a way, Nancy a bit, Jack, Margaret, Lynda. Boy got around. Who did Ten get? Reinette, Jackie, that girl from "Rise of the Cybermen" that Rose somehow got jealous over. Yvonne? People may have been more vocal about "how much better" looking the Doctor was, but I think RTD was sending a subtle message with Nine. :)
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Date: 2006-09-08 04:58 am (UTC)And the Abby/Carter thing? I remember thinking, WTF? Why are they breaking up? Evidently, because the writers thought so. Stupid, stupid. It actually didn't make sense. I don't even remember the details, I just remember the ??? feeling. A familiar one, alas.
I find it funny that people keep calling Ten the alien slut, when clearly that title belongs to Nine.
I know! There's really no competition. And you left out Jackie ("There's a strange man in my room, anything could happen.") and Harriet ("I think I like you." "I like you, too." Big grins in the middle of an alien invasion.). I still maintain that one reason Jackie is so upset with him is that he chose her daughter to run off with - and to be honest, I totally get that, and feel for her.* It really hit me in Father's Day when she says to Pete, "Always clinging to the youngest blonde." So if Pete was doing that, how much more it would hurt if this strangely sexy guy around her own age goes off with her daughter.
I am still not over what happened to Harriet. Not sure I can forgive.
*Have you read the recent Nine/Jackie story on Teaspoon? It's...not what you think, but I quite liked it.
People may have been more vocal about "how much better" looking the Doctor was, but I think RTD was sending a subtle message with Nine. :)
RTD has known and hung out with CE for years. I can't believe that he doesn't see the effect he has on people. He wasn't blind the last time I checked!
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Date: 2006-09-08 04:01 pm (UTC)And you left out Jackie ("There's a strange man in my room, anything could happen.") and Harriet ("I think I like you." "I like you, too." Big grins in the middle of an alien invasion.)
I forgot about Jackie, how I don't know when that scene always cracks me up, and I remembered Harriet but I didn't count her for some reason.
I just re-watched "The Christmas Invasion" today to get caps for icons, and I think I hate Ten a little right now.
Have you read the recent Nine/Jackie story on Teaspoon? It's...not what you think, but I quite liked it.
No, but I'll definitely check it out.
With regards to CE and RTD, I was actually trying to say, but was too tired, was that RTD had all the girls and a couple guys flock after Nine, and Ten didn't get that so much, even though RTD kept boasting about how sexy his Doctor is.
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Date: 2006-09-10 09:13 pm (UTC)I have seen so many people say that they like that the Doctor undermined Harriet. I just don't get it. Yes, you can have characters disagree about ambiguous things like that (was she right to do it? not exactly, but then I would argue she was more right than letting them go to come back with reinforcements - it's not black and white). But what ticked me off was that the Doctor was fuming about shooting someone in the back, and then proceeded to do JUST THAT! It's his hypocrisy more than anything else that I find so damned irritating. Was Nine wrong to give into the Gelth? Absolutely. Was he being hypocritical? Not in a million years. He was being too trusting, and short of sheer stupidity, I always have more sympathy for that.
I don't mind that Ten is a shit (excuse my French). What I do mind is that we're clearly supposed to take him as a hero. That's what I loved about Nine. He made mistakes but we understood them, and he was emotionally consistent. Ten just seems to be way too full of himself and we're supposed to enjoy it. I didn't like it in James T. Kirk either!
Re: CE and Nine getting all the girls (and guys), sometimes it's hard to know how much is scripted and how much is in the playing of it. CE always seems to be subversively sexy, drawing other characters to him by paying them attention. DT, on the other hand - and I think this is why he bugs me - seems to make it all about his performance, and, oh, is there someone else in the frame? He may be great fun on set, but on screen, he seems to be in a little bubble.
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Date: 2006-09-10 09:47 pm (UTC)Really? Because his enemy just did the same thing to him and he took them out. He gave the guy a chance, when his back was turned the alien came at him, and the Doctor took him out, "No second chances", isn't the the stance that Harriet just took? Maybe it's not the best tactic to do it to a retreating enemy, but when it comes to protecting your country against a force like that, you really can't rely on some alien that's not there all the time to protect you. You have to make a stand. Sounds familiar.
DT, on the other hand - and I think this is why he bugs me - seems to make it all about his performance
He was his best, IMHO, in "School Reunion" with Sarah Jane. He seemed very natural in his scenes with her, especially in the diner while he was patching up K9 and when he said goodbye. He was also very good with ASH in the pool scene. It's funny, where his character seems the most selfish, DT does his best, it seems to me!
*points to icon* Because there's really nothing else to add!
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Date: 2006-09-06 07:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-06 08:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-06 07:27 pm (UTC)And the ending when Carter gets stabbed is something you never forget. Damn
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Date: 2006-09-06 08:36 pm (UTC)I still remember when I first saw that ending. The only thing that surprised me more was when they revealed Lucy. Guh. Can't ever forget that.
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Date: 2006-09-07 02:22 am (UTC)I also tend to sniffle in the Cordelia dying episode of Angel and also Buffy's death in season 5. Just the way she jumps! Sorry, I am all verklempt now....
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Date: 2006-09-07 02:25 am (UTC)And yes to both those episodes! I always get choked up on that episode of "Angel", when they replay that video of Doyle and then when he gets the call at the end. Terribly sad, as was Buffy's death. The heartache it seemed to cause!