Doctor Who SPOILERS-S2
Oct. 4th, 2006 12:33 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
meganlynn09This is most likely why I will never leave this fandom. I can't stop thinking about it and coming up with new things to discuss/analyze.
This isn't a rant, I'm just trying to get my thoughts in order as to why I don't really like Ten that much. If you haven't seen all of season 2 yet, SPOILERS.
Anyway, when I think about it enough, I do like the guy. Sort of at least. He has this energy that's great when you're running from danger, he just doesn't always seem to have an outlet for it. He likes to save people, but can either be exclusive or very quiet about it. If it's someone he cares about, no one else matters and there's something I don't like.
And here's my problem. I can come up with better reasons not to like him, than I can to actually love the guy.
The first time I actually had a problem with him was in "New Earth". His "no higher authority" was weird, and seemingly out of place for the Doctor, after he denied wanting that power or even holding himself responsible for having that power in his former body (Nine). Ten thinks that if he's there, nobody else can go against his word. I'm sure the other Doctors were like that, even Nine at some points, but I don't remember Nine being as zealous about it as Ten was, because he took on this role multiple times.
I'm probably the lone shipper in the world that actually understands that Ten had to rescue Reinette in "The Girl in the Fireplace". Forget that he supposedly loved her, not saving her would change the future, and whether the Doctor was thinking of that or not, he had to stop that. What made me angry was that the episode focused on how he left Rose behind, which he left Rose and Mickey behind, yes, but as a Time Lord, isn't it his duty to stop time from altering like that? Why the hell was that never mentioned? Come on RTD, you wanted us to ship Ten/Rose, give us a bone, yeah? Oh wait, that's what the beginning of "The Rise of the Cybermen" was for, wasn't it? I take it back, I don't want the bone.
Anyway...Ten reminds me of those people that find those little faults in everyone and everything around him and ignores what's wrong with himself (and by an extent he ignores Rose's fault as well). Those people fucking annoy me. I've known people like that and I just wanted to smack them, which was a familiar feeling while watching season 2.
Maybe RTD's tactic of pushing Ten on us, showing through Rose how much she already accepts him by "New Earth" backfired with me. I don't want to hear how great he is. I want to see that, and I didn't most of the time. Of course when he goes from one extreme to the other, caring about Rose to seemingly not caring, to looking forward to the slow path to being fucking terrified of it, to warning Rose that he doesn't want to watch her die to being happy that she wants to be with him forever it's hard to figure out who he really is!
Here's to hoping to better writing and/or directing and/or acting in season 2. I can't really decided who gets the most blame, aside from RTD.
These are all my opinions. I've seen all of season two, have seen each episode twice, except for two or three. I know people don't agree. And it's not unreasonable to like one Doctor more than the other, it's happened probably since One regenerated. It's bound to continue to happen.
So, please, let me know how your opinions differ, but please don't preach to me that he's the same person because he's not. When he regenerates, the one constant is the memories. Feelings seem to change, attitudes, behavior, tastes, they all change and that signals a new person. It's not like plastic surgery, he's the new Doctor. And like we saw in the Children in Need special, he remembers it all, and as he told us in "The Christmas Invasion", everything's new, a fresh start.
Besides, if he were the same person, wouldn't I like him? I love Nine, always will, no Doctor, when I see them all, will replace him, but I sometimes barely like Ten. So, I think I'll let my icon speak for itself.
So, tell me, how much of this have I already gone over? I'm just repeating myself, yeah?
God how I envy those that loved season two. Except for those that didn't like season one. Nothing will tarnish my love and adoration of season one.
This isn't a rant, I'm just trying to get my thoughts in order as to why I don't really like Ten that much. If you haven't seen all of season 2 yet, SPOILERS.
Anyway, when I think about it enough, I do like the guy. Sort of at least. He has this energy that's great when you're running from danger, he just doesn't always seem to have an outlet for it. He likes to save people, but can either be exclusive or very quiet about it. If it's someone he cares about, no one else matters and there's something I don't like.
And here's my problem. I can come up with better reasons not to like him, than I can to actually love the guy.
The first time I actually had a problem with him was in "New Earth". His "no higher authority" was weird, and seemingly out of place for the Doctor, after he denied wanting that power or even holding himself responsible for having that power in his former body (Nine). Ten thinks that if he's there, nobody else can go against his word. I'm sure the other Doctors were like that, even Nine at some points, but I don't remember Nine being as zealous about it as Ten was, because he took on this role multiple times.
I'm probably the lone shipper in the world that actually understands that Ten had to rescue Reinette in "The Girl in the Fireplace". Forget that he supposedly loved her, not saving her would change the future, and whether the Doctor was thinking of that or not, he had to stop that. What made me angry was that the episode focused on how he left Rose behind, which he left Rose and Mickey behind, yes, but as a Time Lord, isn't it his duty to stop time from altering like that? Why the hell was that never mentioned? Come on RTD, you wanted us to ship Ten/Rose, give us a bone, yeah? Oh wait, that's what the beginning of "The Rise of the Cybermen" was for, wasn't it? I take it back, I don't want the bone.
Anyway...Ten reminds me of those people that find those little faults in everyone and everything around him and ignores what's wrong with himself (and by an extent he ignores Rose's fault as well). Those people fucking annoy me. I've known people like that and I just wanted to smack them, which was a familiar feeling while watching season 2.
Maybe RTD's tactic of pushing Ten on us, showing through Rose how much she already accepts him by "New Earth" backfired with me. I don't want to hear how great he is. I want to see that, and I didn't most of the time. Of course when he goes from one extreme to the other, caring about Rose to seemingly not caring, to looking forward to the slow path to being fucking terrified of it, to warning Rose that he doesn't want to watch her die to being happy that she wants to be with him forever it's hard to figure out who he really is!
Here's to hoping to better writing and/or directing and/or acting in season 2. I can't really decided who gets the most blame, aside from RTD.
These are all my opinions. I've seen all of season two, have seen each episode twice, except for two or three. I know people don't agree. And it's not unreasonable to like one Doctor more than the other, it's happened probably since One regenerated. It's bound to continue to happen.
So, please, let me know how your opinions differ, but please don't preach to me that he's the same person because he's not. When he regenerates, the one constant is the memories. Feelings seem to change, attitudes, behavior, tastes, they all change and that signals a new person. It's not like plastic surgery, he's the new Doctor. And like we saw in the Children in Need special, he remembers it all, and as he told us in "The Christmas Invasion", everything's new, a fresh start.
Besides, if he were the same person, wouldn't I like him? I love Nine, always will, no Doctor, when I see them all, will replace him, but I sometimes barely like Ten. So, I think I'll let my icon speak for itself.
So, tell me, how much of this have I already gone over? I'm just repeating myself, yeah?
God how I envy those that loved season two. Except for those that didn't like season one. Nothing will tarnish my love and adoration of season one.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2006-10-04 06:53 pm (UTC)And I'm not feeling very intelligent and wordy at the moment, but you know I agree with you *g* I noticed TWoP US viewers were discussing his God complex a lot in their latest episode threads
no subject
Date: 2006-10-04 07:16 pm (UTC)I don't visit the forums over at TWoP anymore, I just read the recaps. But it seems like everyone talked about his God complex. It was very much noticeable with him.
no subject
Date: 2006-10-04 10:20 pm (UTC)Me neither. I honestly hope that I learn to enjoy the S2 episodes a bit more than I did the first time around. I just might. But it's never going to have the same effect as watching an episode from S1.
I like David Tennant. I think he's enjoyable to watch. But it's not the same. And I know it shouldn't be, but it's still hard.
BTW, your icon made me laugh. A lot.
I also liked this: "give us a bone, yeah? " That sounded oh-so-British. :-)
no subject
Date: 2006-10-04 11:26 pm (UTC)David Tennant is the most awesome guy, and it's really unfortunate that I don't like his Doctor more.
That sounded oh-so-British. :-)
Hee. I wonder if it would surprise anyone on my flist to know I was born and raised in Florida.
no subject
Date: 2006-10-06 02:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-10-06 02:24 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 01:06 pm (UTC)I share most of your views on Season 2, especially concerning the emotional rollercoaster that is the 10th Doctor's behaviour from time to time. Sometimes he gets very cocky and annoying, and a well-aimed slap wouldn't be out of place, other times he's just so cute and adorable that you would like to cuddle him...
I go INSANE everytime I try to put my finger on the exact feelings that viewing Season 2 episodes inspires me! This never happened with Season 1: Chris Eccleston was totally amazing and really stood out in his interpretation of the Doctor. Moreover, there was never anything I disliked in the episodes, because all the various 'ingredients' of the story were perfectly mixed. But what happens with Season 2? Why doesn't it appeal to me as much as the previous one? This is a question I'm stil pondering in my head, and - honestly - I haven't been able to find a satisfying answer yet.
Truth is, I've grown to like David Tennant VERY much, but there's something about him when he plays Doctor Who that really pierces my senses with an unpleasant sensation, a bit like fingernails scratching on a blackboard and sending shivers down your spine (am I making any sense here? Sorry if I'm not clear enough, English is only my second language). Anyway, although I try to re-watch Season 2 episodes from time to time, I feel I'm doing it just to compare David's DW acting to his previous works and not because I actually like the plot (apart for a few episodes) or the character development (don't even THINK of getting me started on Rose or Mickey, as I'd melt the keyboard before I finish ranting about those two!).
What sort of DW fan am I then? Can I be considered a DW-fan at all? Am I really that different from all the others, or is there actually a whole lot of us having the same feelings about the new series?
Anyway, there's one thing I'm certain of: my TOTAL love for season one will NEVER decrease!!! :)
no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 04:12 pm (UTC)I thought I was the only one to feel that way about the 10th Doctor, but I'm not, yay!
In this fandom, you're bound to find at least one other person who shares your feelings. Sometimes it just takes a little time. :)
And I personally adore David Tennant, he's the cutest damn thing, so it pains me a little to say that I'm not liking his Doctor. He's so excited to be playing the part, but either the writing is really terrible in regards to his character or he's just not getting it. In this case, I'm almost hoping for the answer to be the writing.
Just because you're disappointed by the season doesn't make you a non-fan. If we weren't fans, we wouldn't care! And yeah, there are others out there that were just as disappointed in season 2 as we were.
Aw, season one.
no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 07:00 pm (UTC)Much love for the Girl in the Fireplace though (Stephen Moffat!) ignoring the ship, I can totally see the reasons he went through, and that he had too. Hurrah!
no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 07:42 pm (UTC)And I'm already not a huge fan of GitF, unfortunately. Could care less about the ship in season 2, so that was never a problem. I just didn't feel it like everyone else.
no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 10:38 pm (UTC)Your icon reminds me to check out some of the Sixth Doctor.
no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 10:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 10:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 11:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 11:12 pm (UTC)a freakabnormally good with any Doctor she's with.no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 10:45 pm (UTC)Early on I thought it might be that Nine was scared of his power and Ten was more comfortable with it and potentially scary as a result. And I can see people hate that, but I'm usually fine cos I like a bit of hubris in my Doctor. *is Seven fangirl, which explains a lot...*
Come on RTD, you wanted us to ship Ten/Rose, give us a bone, yeah?
It's the uncomfortable fit of shippiness. If we're shipping in this fandom we've got to deal with the inevitability of endings and the risk of that happening at any moment. Though GitF seems to exist despite the Ten/Rose ship in some ways, it stil works as a more general comment on the whole thing.
to looking forward to the slow path to being fucking terrified of it
I think he's got a romantic notion that it might be quite nice, but unless he's got no other option he's terrified of it.
So, please, let me know how your opinions differ, but please don't preach to me that he's the same person because he's not.
Besides, if he were the same person, wouldn't I like him?
There's Doctor I can't stand either. *hugs you*
no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 11:02 pm (UTC)Mwahahaha!
Do you get the BFAs, teh nos? Because you neeeeeeeed to hear Red ifn you're a Seven fan. I loved it. Even though it's Seven/Mel, which up until less than a year ago I would have cut my ears off rather than listen to..
I have.. umm... acquired some of the BF ouvre. *looks shifty* But they don't generally seem to be my thing, in that I listen and then instantly forget what happened in them. I have no attention-span!
no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 11:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 10:55 pm (UTC)I think the years he has on him, he kinda deserves a little bit of hubris. It's the way he went about things though that bothered me. *has yet to see Seven*
I could deal with not shipping Ten/Rose if the whole of season two didn't seem to be so relentless in making us ship them. And if Rose didn't turn into a character that...well, the character she turned into.
I think he's got a romantic notion that it might be quite nice, but unless he's got no other option he's terrified of it.
Before he knew about the fireplace, at the end of GitF, he didn't have any other options and he looked forward to going the slow path. I think I just wave it off as that he was looking forward to it with Reinette, but then it makes it look like he was so terrified in TIP because it was with Rose. I...try not too think too hard on that one.
*hugs*
no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 11:10 pm (UTC)He's been very casual about it, and hasn't really had anyone around to challenge him on it. It's just coming across as arrogance a lot of the time, which ends up being off-putting unless you're being
far too forgivingsympathetic to him from the outset. I can totally see why it puts people off, and I'd like to get some consequences from it all. (Okay, Torchwood, but he doesn't even know that's his fault.)I could deal with not shipping Ten/Rose if the whole of season two didn't seem to be so relentless in making us ship them. And if Rose didn't turn into a character that...well, the character she turned into.
Yeah, it's very set on shipping them. The audience doesn't even have to try with that ship, though the effect on Rose is... not pretty and not very fair on her.
Before he knew about the fireplace, at the end of GitF, he didn't have any other options and he looked forward to going the slow path. I think I just wave it off as that he was looking forward to it with Reinette, but then it makes it look like he was so terrified in TIP because it was with Rose. I...try not too think too hard on that one.
Much as I ship Ten/Reinette, I honestly think it's just that Rose pulled "mortgages!" on him. Staying together didn't trouble him at all, and GitF he's fine with "the slow path" but he'd have run screaming if Reinette had said "and now we can do marriage and babies and financial responsibility, yay!" She's not demanding anything that circumstances alone aren't forcing on the Doctor in the first place.
no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 11:27 pm (UTC)The audience doesn't even have to try with that ship, though the effect on Rose is... not pretty and not very fair on her.
I loved Rose in S1, I think that's why I could ship her with Nine, she actually questioned him and disagreed with him. I mean, I don't think they'd have the best of relationships, in fact I would have protested if Nine stayed around and they turned around to have the Ten/Rose relationship, but at least with Nine/Rose, it was easier to ignore. Which put me more at ease when I would actually think about them and realize, Eww. But I find them so pretty...anyway.
Much as I ship Ten/Reinette, I honestly think it's just that Rose pulled "mortgages!" on him.
She still didn't seem to take it all seriously. That and the "mortgages!" probably bothered him lots. I don't know. I can't figure this Doctor out and I just...frustrating. This show busts my brains.
*waits for Martha to be the best companion evah*
no subject
Date: 2006-10-06 04:29 am (UTC)I need to write fic where he gets called on it. Or where he's hardcore enough to earn the arrogance a bit more. One thing that could work is that I'm fairly sure he could get Rose back if he was willing to do something incredibly stupid. And then the universe could explode or something and he could feel stupid. ...only better than that, obvs.
I loved Rose in S1, I think that's why I could ship her with Nine, she actually questioned him and disagreed with him.
They had a bit of conflict, yeah, especially in the beginning. Bit of spark to it.
She still didn't seem to take it all seriously. That and the "mortgages!" probably bothered him lots. I don't know. I can't figure this Doctor out and I just...frustrating. This show busts my brains.
I could do handwaves on it that are more Ten/Reinette shippy, but the "she didn't ask for a mortgage" works for me. Rose just kind of walked into without thinking, and if she'd left out the mortgage part he'd have been fine with it. I think. Probably.
*waits for Martha to be the best companion evah*
*giggles* Gotta admit, I'm curious to see RTD do the hadr-sell on her. It was okay selling her against an exaggerated "all other companions are crap" when no one remembered the others, but it's gonna be tricky when people are still fond of Rose.
no subject
Date: 2006-10-06 05:01 pm (UTC)Yes, you should.
I could do handwaves on it that are more Ten/Reinette shippy
I think anyone could. Even though I didn't buy into Ten/Reinette so well, I could see that the comparisons between the conversations would put Reinette in a better light.
but it's gonna be tricky when people are still fond of Rose
Since so many are disappointed by Rose in season 2, it seems like it could have been intentional? Because I can tell you right now, if Rose was how she was in S1 in S2, I would be up in arms right now about a new companion coming in. Now I'm waiting with arms wide open.
no subject
Date: 2006-10-06 05:15 pm (UTC)*has a think*
Since so many are disappointed by Rose in season 2, it seems like it could have been intentional? Because I can tell you right now, if Rose was how she was in S1 in S2, I would be up in arms right now about a new companion coming in. Now I'm waiting with arms wide open.
It's quite possible that certain aspects of Rose got exaggerrated or left relatively forgotten so that there'd be a contrast, yeah. As it stands, Martha will looking amazingly confrontational by comparison if she at some point mildly disagrees with Ten over what to put on toast. (I joke, but...)
no subject
Date: 2006-10-06 05:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-10-06 05:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-10-06 03:50 am (UTC)I think this is the point above all points. We have everyone both onscreen and behind the scenes telling us how bloody wonderful Ten and Tennant are, but I just don't see it onscreen. He's inconsistent, willful, smug, and self-involved to a point that sometimes I think he's going to implode into a black hole of his own ego. (Wait - wasn't that the plot of Doomsday?) And they used Rose and the connection we (or I, at least) had built up with her in S1 to make us LOVE HIM DAMN IT! You will succumb! I really, really don't take well to that. I liked that Nine was a little scary; or that Two was a bit of a buffoon; or that Six was an arrogant sod, but they gave you other "ins" to the character. Hell, one of my favourite fictional characters ever was Avon from Blake's Seven who was selfish, arrogant, brilliant, and in the end psychotic. But all those elements fit together with a kind of rational enlightened self-interest that made him fascinating.
Quite a lot of it is writing. But I also think that David Tennant should share some of the blame. I'm reminded of an anecdote when someone was complaining about how obnoxiously Diana Ross was behaving after the Supremes became stars. A woman who grew up with her said, "I say this in Diana's defence - she was always a bitch." I do say this in Tennant's defence - I've seen him in lots of things, and I've never thought he was anything more than an okay actor. I think he brings a lot of energy and enthusiasm, but little discipline and not a lot of nuance or genuine feeling. There's no center to his character, just a bunch of little bits, some of which are more pleasant than others, but I get no coherent sense of who he is.
My biggest problem with Girl in the Fireplace isn't the writing, or even the Rose issue - it's that I didn't for a minute buy the relationship between Ten and Reinette, and therefore the whole engine sputtered and died. I know we're supposed to think the ending was really deep and moving, but I was left cold and a little amused by the "performance" of loneliness.
no subject
Date: 2006-10-06 04:58 pm (UTC)Quite a lot of it is writing. But I also think that David Tennant should share some of the blame.
Well, he can't be blameless. I doubt the director tells him 100% of the time to act a certain way, he makes some choices in how his Doctor behaves.
it's that I didn't for a minute buy the relationship between Ten and Reinette
That's my biggest problem as well. But then, look at it this way, if the majority of viewers feel this is the best of season 2, what does that say about the rest of season 2?
Because I look at season 1 and see four or five episodes as my favorite. I look at season 2, and can barely count 2.