Doctor Who S2

[meganlynn09]

So, evidently "The Girl in the Fireplace" is either a LOVE IT or HATE IT episode.  Which puts me in a bind because I liked it.  I'm firmly in the middle on that episode.

I couldn't buy into the romance, I didn't see any chemistry between David Tennant and Sophia Myles.  And the Doctor really bothered me in this episode.  But I like Reinette more and more everytime I watch this episode.  Especially in her scene with Rose.

But everywhere I look I see posts that are either completely RAVING about the episode or seething with RAGE over it.  It's bothersome.  

But I'm not surprised.  I think I suffered from the fact that I watched S1 and S2 back to back which was probably a bad idea for a Nine-lover such as myself.  If maybe I had that year or so between seasons, it would have worked in my favor.  But it really didn't.  Instead I just kept thinking, I can't think of any episode in S1 that I hated.  Hate's a strong description, but there were two or three episodes in S2 that come darn close.

"Love & Monsters" comes instantly to mind.  I loved the idea, adore some of it, but it just fell so completely flat.  "Rise of the Cybermen" probably follows that.  I'm not so hot on a couple other episodes.

I feel like I've posted this a million times before, but it's just I had such expectations for this season and I was really disappointed with the direction and the writing and I'm the lone person that didn't like "Doomsday", and roll my eyes at the constant posts of "OMG I watched Doomsday AGAIN and CRIED, OMG" (so sorry if that offends anyone, but seriously, it's how I feel and this is my journal).  I cried at the end, it did momentarily break my heart, and yet I felt relieved.

Anyway, this was just to say, who thought what about "The Girl in the Fireplace"?

Comments

[seekingwords.livejournal.com]

I only watched "The Girl in the Fireplace" once, and I wasn't frustrated or anything. I thought it was okay, actually. And like you, I liked Reinette, but I didn't buy the romance.

Oh, and I'm starting to loathe the word "Doomsday". It appears wayyy too often on my friends page. Bleh.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I know exactly how you feel!

[velvet-midnight.livejournal.com]

Just watched GitF last night on Sci-Fi. I liked it, but it's not one of my absolute favorites. Sophia Myles did a wonderful job, though. I really liked Reinette. Though, as a shipper, I had a problem with the Doctor knowing there would be no way back, yet still going for it and leaving Rose behind. And then Rose doesn't even get mad (she got more pissed in School Reunion), she just hugs him and is all smiles. What?
*breathes*lol

Anyways, sorry to rant. Short answer: liked it. :)

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

See, I always knew the Doctor had to go through the mirror because otherwise that would seriously screw up the timeline and the future, Reinette couldn't die then, and Rose not being angry was because she understood that. Sure, they never presented that in the episode, but I pretend they did and I can gloss over that. :)

I liked it for the horse myself!

[velvet-midnight.livejournal.com]

True, true...

The horse rocked my world, man! lol

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Arthur for the win!

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

I think it's a mess, which would probably explain the variant reactions. I like the look and the idea, but I'm not at all sold by the relationship (a fatal flaw), and Reinette is better with Rose than she is with the Doctor. Rose/Billie Piper is far more mature and subtle in this episode than in School Reunion (although I overall like that episode better). But really, why is Rose so quick to forgive him? I guess we're left to think she's hypnotized by his cute (because she'd never have let Nine get away with that), in which case ::vomit:: As per usual, David Tennant is unconvincing with real emotion - I feel like laughing over his final scene because it's so high school drama production.

I share your feeling about Doomsday as well. Yet again, too - adolescent, emotionally immature. RTD is capable of so much more - Second Coming is proof of that, and I think we got it in S1, too. I'm certain that S2 wouldn't feel quite so bad to me if S1 hadn't felt so rich and genuinely multi-layered, as opposed to just schizoid. It's like a bait and switch.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

See if it had been Nine, Rose would have smacked his arm and been like "What were you thinking?" And then hugged him. But I still stand by my theory that even though it may have been for different reasons, he had to jump through and stop what was about to happen. Reinette couldn't die yet, it would change the course of history way too much. Unfortunately, the episode had to focus on other things. Blah.

I actually liked the last scene with the Doctor, without the voiceover reading the letter. And all the "angel" crap was just stupid IMHO. The last scene on mute is nice.

Even with all the people bad mouthing it, I still have a huge blind spot for "School Reunion", and it's still one of my favorites. I just wish I could switch the Rose of GitF with the one in SR and then, I think, we'd have more in-character reactions. I just think Rose would have handled meeting someone from the past better than chatting with the woman the Doctor's supposedly falling in love with.

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

See if it had been Nine, Rose would have smacked his arm and been like "What were you thinking?" And then hugged him.

Exactly! I can see why he would want to preserve a timeline, but I still think his treatment of Rose and Mickey is callous. (Of course, we ain't seen nothin' yet, because the beginning of ROTC is so mean I see red everytime I think of it.) I'm just so not smitten with Ten, so I can't forgive his "cute little cruelties". Although that sounds like a smashing name for a band, or a song...or a plot bunny... The last scene is a big cringe for me, same as his solo "emo" scene in Doomsday. He doesn't sell it to me. I think one of the reasons that people (mis)remember Nine as emo!Doctor wasn't that he was like that all the time - it was that he was so good at it when it did happen.

CE might just have pulled off the lonely angel (he was an excellent sweet angel of revenge), but the Lonely God thing is just... Yeah, that whole line was a mistake.

People are badmouthing SR? Really? I didn't go much for Anthony Stewart Head chewing scenery into tiny woodchips like a rabid hamster, but it was far and away my favourite episode of the season. Now that all is over, I think TIP/TSP was the best-looking and -sounding ep, but frankly the Doctor and Rose pretty much ended up making more of a mess than would have happened if they hadn't been there.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

See his end in Doomsday is a whole 'nother ballpark for me because that just makes me cringe to think about it.

With SR, it's mostly how they changed Sarah Jane's character. Her being all "You were my life" made people who saw her in her original episodes cringe and the fact that they made it sound like she was abandoned, when really, she kinda wasn't (which I've seen her departure seen, and nowhere do the words "I'll be back" come close). I don't know, the fact that she turned him down, that she questioned him, made it worth it to me!

The secondary characters are what made TIP/TSP for me! But TSP just so let me down, after how much I enjoyed TIP.

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

See his end in Doomsday is a whole 'nother ballpark for me because that just makes me cringe to think about it.

I definitely think that the end of GitF was meant to be the foreshadowing of that. Either that, or it was bad script editing! In S2, I'm never entirely sure...

With SR, it's mostly how they changed Sarah Jane's character. Her being all "You were my life"

Eww, yeah, I can see how that would not be good. It's not even optimal in this episode (let alone in the context of GitF coming next), but I did buy the connection between Tennant and Sladen (although I think it was more David Tennant than the Doctor!). Experiencing the series again, I feel Ten's lack of connection with Rose, emotionally and intimately, even more keenly than I did the first time. I'm just not convinced he really loved her the way Nine did - which is fair enough, but he seems to enjoy having her hang all over him, squeeing as if that will help her convince herself that nothing's changed. He should have said something, or at least stopped sending her so many mixed signals. It's not just that she's 19 - it's just sheer decency.

the fact that she turned him down, that she questioned him, made it worth it to me!

Yea, verily, and wasn't that a rarity this season? My biggest hope for S3 is that Jack gives him a mighty smackdown. Somebody needs to do it, and Jack would be more satisfying than just about anybody to deliver it.

I love the secondary characters in TIP/TSP. They were fantastic - a whole bunch of almost-Nancys.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Has nothing really to add. *shrugs*

*is also tired of Season 2 discussion but will definitely continue*

*goes back to making more icons*

I'm seriously going to be using this icon all the time.

(apologies for teh spammage) :(

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I just think Rose would have handled meeting someone from the past better than chatting with the woman the Doctor's supposedly falling in love with

The only thing I can think of there is that Sarah shows that she's really not got a unique role in his life. Another woman she can maybe shrug off as not being his other half on a daily basis, but Sarah being pretty much exactly her only earlier makes it feel a bit like he just does this all the time? It says that she's not the first and maybe worse won't be the last, that everything that's special and amazing to her isn't to him, even the emotional stuff. She's 19/20 and a bit young, so that must have been harsh on her. She goes from "only" to "one of" and flirting she's at least seen him do before. Ex-companions is a huge part of his past that he's somehow just not mentioned, and it might not matter to him (he's thinking from the perspective that he needs to replace them to keep being loved), but it matters to her.

Re: (apologies for teh spammage) :(

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I get that. It's just...we're supposed to be seeing things from Rose's perspective, and I just feel, like it wouldn't be surprising to find that the over 900-year-old alien has travelled with others. I don't know. *shrugs* I really don't know what Rose was thinking in S2.

Re: (apologies for teh spammage) :(

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I know, it's a bit of a leap to think she just somehow had No Idea. Surely there'd be stuff in the TARDIS and the Doctor would have to occasionally mention whoever else was involved in his wacky adventures? She really wasn't seeming that naive and he wasn't seeming quite that secretive and avoidy.

Re: (apologies for teh spammage) :(

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

And see, as much as I love "School Reunion", I really don't like Rose much in that episode. And it's because of that. Sure she has a laugh with Sarah Jane about the Doctor, but then she's a complete bitch about Mickey coming along, and in TGitF she's excited about showing him around. Of course that's a whole 'nother issue.

Re: (apologies for teh spammage) :(

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I think the girl;s shouldn't have fought they should just have kneed the Doctor in the balls and gone for a drink.

Re: (apologies for teh spammage) :(

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

That would have made it everyone's favorite episode.

Re: (apologies for teh spammage) :(

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

Hooray!

[ladyofspain.livejournal.com]

I think the romance, and the Doctor falling into it so easily was extremely difficult to believe. I'm a little biased because I'm a Doctor/Rose shipper, but just that it only took a few hours for him to start following Reinette around was weird.

I don't blame him for jumping through the mirror, but after watching "School Reunion" and having their closeness and connection mentioned again and again...he and Rose each should have been much more upset over the separation. It didn't make sense that Rose didn't get angry OR that the Doctor got right into flirting with Reinette when he's just left the woman that he supposedly loves (whether you believe that to be platonic or not).

So basically...eh. I liked the characters, but the inconsistencies just overshadowed it. I could get through it if I could fast forward through the kiss and his hiding-behind-the-pillar scene...

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Gah, my reply got ate!

Anyway, I was saying that this episode made me happy that I wasn't shipping Ten/Rose. I saw the connection that they wanted us to see, but I didn't like them romantically anymore. *shrugs* But I understand others who did.

Surprisingly, I didn't mind Rose not being angry. Or it was just that it didn't surprise me that we didn't see her angry, she was just relieved. If she was going to yell at him, she probably bit her tongue till later.

The Doctor's reaction is what made me angry. It directly contridicts with his behavior later in "The Impossible Planet" and that bugs me. The inconsistent writing of the Doctor in S2 is a major sore spot with me.

[ladyofspain.livejournal.com]

Ooh, no, I meant her being angry before he got back. With the situation and unfairness of him having to leave. But I completely agree with you about her being relieved when she saw him. My bad.

That's right! Exactly right. They're trying to let him change (or at least give us some insights we haven't had before) and give us some foreshadowing to "Doomsday", almost, but it's not exactly working. It is frustrating, but I really feel like it would make more sense without this episode specifically.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

The writing really bothered me this season, mostly because it was like none of the writers were getting together and talking and planning together. In fact, the writer of TGitF admitted to now knowing how Rose behaved in "School Reunion", so there's a little proof that the writers are really on the up and up on what's happening episode to episode and that's worrisome.

[ladyofspain.livejournal.com]

They don't film the episodes in order, either, do they? So once an error is made there's no way to correct it...

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the episodes are filmed out of order. But I would figure the editing would take care of that. I think I just got spoiled with S1. With that, I could see such a clear path of characterization and episodes didn't clash as much (although they had a few problems with characterization being a little awkward between episodes, just not as noticeable as S2).

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I feel a bit torn because on one hand she was very quietly mature about the whole thing and that was impressive but then I worry that the acceptance is a bit too much to ask of her, for her just to totally forget that the Doctor's effectively left her for another woman. After that ep she's not backed off any, so it's not even that she's decided to keep it casual.

[whywastewords.livejournal.com]

This is so weird, I had no idea The Girl in the Fireplace had just played in America - and I just saw it about an hour ago for the first time since it aired here. Such a coincidence.

Anyway, I couldn't ever really weigh in on the whole Reinette/Doctor thing before, because frankly I couldn't remember much about it! At the time, I was only just beginning to watch properly and didn't have... perspective, I suppose, is the word.

I guess if I were pigeonholed, I'd be a Ten/Rose kind of girl, but I liked this episode. I wasn't angry on Rose's behalf, although just in a general way I was bothered that he went through knowing there'd be no way back -- but not bothered in terms of 'OMG!11! he left Rose butthey're in LUV!11'. He's a Time Lord. He has things to do. And stopping time paradoxes is one of those damn things!

I rarely look at episodes from the point of view of a shipper because Doctor Who just isn't the kind of show that can really accomadate shippers. It'll be a cold day in hell when the writers overtly plot out a proper Doctor/someone romance. Unless a few years down the line they have the shock return of Romana III or something. Unless it's another Time Lord (Lady?) it'll just be puppy eyes and misunderstandings galore.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

See, as I put above, this episode does make me happy that I didn't really ship Ten/Rose. I'll stick to my Nine/Rose, their relationship makes me happy.

But really, my problems with the episode are pretty far apart from everyone else's. And yeah, I was never angry on Rose's behalf either.

He's a Time Lord. He has things to do. And stopping time paradoxes is one of those damn things!

THANK YOU! I was so sick of people basically saying that Reinette should have been left to die because the Doctor can't leave Rose behind. It just, no, it's not cool.

I think the problem with the new series (and this stems back to "Rose") is that they tried to make it as much about Rose as the Doctor, so when the show tried to fix that and rightfully make the show about the person it's named after, people started getting upset. I don't know. The show's about the Doctor, not Doctor/Rose. So, we'll just have to see what happens in the new season.

[whywastewords.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's exactly what I've been saying! I can't understand why so many episodes were centered around Rose and Rose's story. Not that I didn't enjoy them as a viewer, but from a writer/producer point of view, it's asking for trouble. They focused WAY too much on her, and I'm wary of them losing their footing now that she's gone. What with the casting news on all of Martha's family I'm afraid that they're repeating the process all over again by focusing on Martha and her life.

What I want to see is something that harkens back to the classic series - multiple companions. We had Adam for the blink of an eye, and of course Jack, but none were the Rose type of companion that you knew was there to stay. I'd like to see maybe 2 female companions and a male one in the TARDIS with the Doc all at the same time. Maybe even a romance between the guy and one of the girls.

Maybe I should look to Torchwood for the ensemble cast thing (excellent show by the way!) but DW managed an ensemble cast of sorts back in the day. It's a shame that seems impossible now! Long post - sorry!

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I think they're going to try to repeat with Martha what they did with Rose because it somewhat worked. It's a bit disappointing, but in this sort of industry, I suppose you should go with what you know.

I would love to see multiple companions! And I think a romance between two companions would work so much better than romancing the Doctor. You wouldn't get the backlash that the Doctor/Rose seemed to get at times.

Guh, I can't wait to see Torchwood. Hopefully just a few more hours. *poor deprieved little American here*

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I loved it and suspect a bit of that is because I finally got a ship for New Who that I could buy and it was Doctorcentric as an ep and also clockdroids and a horse.

The speed doesn't bother me because the Doctor seems to fall for people fast. He's only known Rose about five minutes before all the shippy stuff starts, and they were meant to have instant love as well. This one I think the mindmeld stuff helped because it did at least attempt to give it some logic on top of his preexisting fanboy crush on Reinette.

It's the story they couldn't do with a companion because they can't get killed off after one episode, and I used to wish it was longer to pace the romance better and see more of it, but now I think maybe that was the point. We should feel like it was too brief, because that's what it feels like for the Doctor with humans.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I see where they were going with the episode, and I was greatly looking forward to it. Even thinking that I would be a shipper in S2, I thought this episode was going to be fantastic. And it's not that I'm I shipper that I couldn't buy the romance. I just...didn't feel it?

I said it in another reponse, they wanna do a romance on the show, have it with two companions, 'cause dammit, there should be multiple companions.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

Like all such things it had to rely a fair bit on the viewer buying the chemistry/romance, and it was never going to persuade everyone and it does as an episode rest quite heavily on that aspect. Sort of like how I just burst out laughing in the closing sequences of Doomsday because I had like zero empathy with Rose and didn't care enough about her angst? (Which is why I am DETERMINED to like Martha, yes. DETERMINED!)

I'm sure there's enough time for more than one companion the way it's set up now? It seems to end up with one getting attention and the other one being a bit of a third wheel. Woe. :(

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Even though it would have been mean to leave her without a goodbye, I still would have liked the episode better if it left it at the wall scene, with the Doctor walking away slowly and Rose actually composing herself before she turns to her family.

I still cried at the beach scene, but I'm easy like that.

I would love more than one companion.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

The ending just went on a bit long. I thought it was gonna end at the wall and then it kept going and I felt a bit weird watching Rose cry when the Doctor seemed relatively okay with it all. Like, he could cope a bit better and it felt really unfair that she was broken and he knows how to repress things liek woah. :S


K-9 would be fun. He wouldn't need much development and he's a robot dog which is a love/hate thing for me.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I just think RTD could have written a better ending. I really do.

And see, the fun thing is you could blow up K-9 whenever he got too annoying, 'cause apparantly he's easy to rebuild.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

He had that ending planned for aaages. I think maybe it was very idealised in his head by that point?


K-9 they could use as a footstool sometimes, or as a moving drinks tray.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I'm waiting for my Torchwood downloads to complete before I decide whether or not to loathe RTD on that alone.

See, now you've got my hopes up and I'm gonna want K-9 around to do that!

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I think the episode largely depended on whether or not you bought the romance, so I'm just one of those that didn't.

That really does sound like an alarming idea.

[phantomviola.livejournal.com]

I really loved the episode! For a while, I actually forgot all about Rose. Suddenly I wanted the Doctor to hook up with Reinette instead. I feel that they really had a very strong connection that Rose didn't have with him. The fact that he was willing to break the time portal and risk being stuck with Reinette showed that he really cared about her and loved her in a way. I'm just loving this show, as well as David Tennant! I'm trying to avoid learning about what happens in the season finale since in the U.S. we're barely getting it on SciFi.

By the way, had to say I LOVE your icons! Also, I'm looking for some DW fans to chat with about the show. Would you mind if I added you as a friend?

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I truly get why people loved it. And I cheated, I'm in the US as well and found some ways to...acquire the episodes.

Oh thank you, I'm glad you like my icons!

I don't mind if you friend me, but I would just like to put upfront that I'm not the biggest fan of Ten, although I adore David Tennant, and that I usually gush about Nine and prefer season one. But I avoid actually bashing anyone(any characters) unless they truly deserve it. :) So, just check out my journal to be sure! Other then that, I love new friends!

Oh, and I have past posts about season two that do discuss the season finale. I think I put spoiler warnings on them, but I'll make sure to double check.

[phantomviola.livejournal.com]

LOL! I guess one can't resist finding out about the new season. I'm trying to avoid acquiring episodes and finding out about the season finale, but I admit I did watch "The Christmas Invasion" on YouTube since I couldn't wait any longer.

You know what? I'm a huge Nine fan too! That's why I fell in love with the show! I have no bias when it comes to that. I totally love season 1 and Christopher Eccleston. Thank you so much for allowing me to add you! Check out my journal too and see if you'd like to friend me as well. ;)

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

No problem! It's no secret that I love and adore S1 and I gush about CE all the time, so look forward to it!