Questions!

[meganlynn09]

My curious mind needs to know what you all think about my sometimes large multifandom icon posts.  Would it be better if I used separate tables for each different set of icons?  Or should I do separate posts for each different set of icons?

It's recently come to my attention that some, or most, I'm not sure, people don't like the large tables with everything bunched in.  I don't myself, and yet I turn around and do it anyway.

So, please, if my large tables interrupt your viewing pleasure, I'd love to know and have your feedback.

Moving on, I have a question under the cut regarding a theory floating around for Torchwood.

Am I the only one disturbed and bothered about the suicide angle everyone's trying to present on Jack?

Or am I the only one bothered by the fact that everyone seems to think it's just dandy, or treating it like it would be normal for him?

Am I just too sensitive about the subject?  I've been surrounded a little much my death in the family this year and my parents had a very close friend commit suicide a couple years ago.  Should I just stop reading all these Torchwood theories?

And YAY!  New episode tonight.  *bounces*  *glares at everyone who is laughing at her*

Comments

[boji.livejournal.com]

No. You're not the only one. I think that it's plausible that if he's been stranded for decades or centuries he may have become lax with his life, or with his death - I imagine he probably went on the ultimate self-destruct trip but I don't imagine it lightly.

That said, most people found the mpreg comment worthy of a giggle or three. Me? I wrote a horror ficlet.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I suppose what bothers me the most are the people who do take it seemingly lightly.

I still don't know what to make to the mpreg comment. I'm still trying to think if the context could make it into some joke.

[bluekiwibubble.livejournal.com]

The icon thing, the whole big multi-fandom post thing doesn't bother me, but maybe separate tables for the separate fandoms would be good.

I've completely missed this - what Jack suicide angle?
It was the hand thing that disturbed me, although that was mainly because I saw a Jack/hand community and then got told by a friend that RTD had said that it was the Doctor's hand. Not that Dr/Jack bothers me, but Jack/Doctor's-dead-hand does.
Oh, I forgot it's on tonight!

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I think I'm going to start the separate tables thing again, maybe it'll be a little more work on my half, but if it's for better viewing, than I'll do it. Plus, I'm a total comment h0r.

Some people seem to thing that since Jack is so firm in his belief that he can't die, he must have tried suicide.

The Jack/Doctor's hand thing is completely bothersome. It's icks me.

[bluekiwibubble.livejournal.com]

Erm. That's disturbing. Why can't he just have been (not)killed by other people - it's not like he's the kind to stay out of trouble, afterall. I really can't see Jack trying to commit suicide. Not-dying of starvation(say, lasting months & months & months but just not dying) or similar stuck up on satellite 5, maybe, but not suicide. TBH I thought the whole 'I can't die' thing was really cheesy, although depending on what they do with it it could work.

[spellingwitch.livejournal.com]

I'm only going on this entry and comments because I've not read any Torchwood theories, but I don't know - Jack doesn't seem the suicide type to me in general (based on his toughness and his persistence in arguing with the computer when he was going to die in TDD). I'm thinking once he found out he couldn't die, he might have tried it - but not because he wanted to die, as in despair, but because he had to test it out. Do you watch Heroes? You know the cheerleader character? I could see Jack going through an experimenting phase like that, where he tried any number of ways to kill himself, but mostly out of compulsive disbelief...not despair. For some reason that context makes it easier for me to take.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I do watch Heroes, and I think in that regard, you have a very good, and even valid point. Disbelief instead of despair works well in this case.

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

Re: icon tables

I can see an argument for making a table/post per fandom, but that probably means a lot of extra work for you cross-posting. The big pages can take a long time to load, and sometimes it's just one picture hanging things up. Its not much of a problem now that I have my new computer, but I can see it being a real issue for people still on dialup.

Re: Jack and suicide; I know that I mentioned Jack being suicidal, but I didn't really mean it in a slit-my-wrists, no hope left, OMG!emo! way, but more like we saw Nine at the beginning (yet again, the resonance), being a little overly risk-taking. I don't see him being so depressed over being left behind at the Gamestation that he would commit suicide, but I can see him "dying" accidentally the first time and thinking, "Whoa, wait a minute, what was that?" I thought his gorgeous-but-pointless shot on top of the building was suggesting his lack of fear - it reminded me of the movie Fearless, where a man who survives a plane crash finds himself testing his limits.

I always thought Jack was a lot deeper and darker than most people thought he was. He was a conman but he shifted so quickly and easily into being a hero, and dying for the Doctor to give him more time. That suggests to me that he was always a good guy, but deeply disillusioned; the Doctor (and Rose) gave him back his sense of self. And the Doctor only takes the best. I think Jack's key line has always been: "I wish I'd never met you. I was better off a coward." And unlike the fans who scream that Nine was ineffective and never did his own work, I think that he was better than that - those who came in contact with Nine were almost always encouraged to be braver and more alive (Dickens, Nancy, Jack, the Controller, Harriet, Mickey - in a backhanded way, even the lone!Dalek) or dismissed for not rising to the occasion - Adam. Even Jabe (okay, that was mostly pointless, but there was such a connection) and Gwyneth, who died, but to save others. To me, that's a huge difference between Nine and Ten - Ten often abandons others to their fate (Sir Robert, the Cyberbride and her like, Mrs. Moore, Ida, more Cyberpeople...I'm sure I'm missing people from FH and TIL, but I can barely remember those episodes now), and the best you can hope for is to be left behind. I'm not clear on how that's improvement...

Sorry, wandered off topic. But Jack is reflecting some aspects of Nine's character, that seems clear. And while I "get" the Angel comparisons, I just hated that show, so I'm happier to see similar themes with a better actor!

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I'm probably just going to end up doing separate tables. I don't mind if it means more work for me. Easier viewing should be an option. And really, do those huge tables are hard.

I mentioned Jack being suicidal, but I didn't really mean it in a slit-my-wrists, no hope left, OMG!emo! way, but more like we saw Nine at the beginning (yet again, the resonance), being a little overly risk-taking.

Right, I can see that, it's just I don't think Jack would actually think SUICIDE. I think if he didn't pay attention to the risks, it's just how he's become. I don't know if that makes sense.

I always thought Jack was a lot deeper and darker than most people thought he was.

Oh yes. *nods*

And listing all those people that Nine met, you just gave me another idea for a post. My first one is a list of reasons of how Ten and Jack just will not work and the second will be how Nine was the slut.

And while I "get" the Angel comparisons, I just hated that show

I only way I compare the two is 1)the overhead city shots that make me think someone was watching Angel a bit much before filming and 2)a darker spin-off of a much popular show. *sheepish* I really liked Angel. Well, certain seasons at least.

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

Right, I can see that, it's just I don't think Jack would actually think SUICIDE. I think if he didn't pay attention to the risks, it's just how he's become. I don't know if that makes sense.

I think we're basically thinking the same way, just using different language. I don't think Jack would ever consciously think of suicide; but I can see him getting, not exactly cocky, but a little overconfident plus feeling a bit lost, so also feeling a little careless. Then again, adrenaline junkie is another quite reasonable hypothesis, but he'd have to keep pushing - if he'd realized he wasn't going to die, at least not easily, then the risk would have to be higher for the adrenaline reward.

I think Jack was always about flirtation/pleasure because it helped avoid commitment - he used flirtation/seduction to avoid connection, not to make it. OTOH, I think Nine wasn't so much a sexual flirt as someone who had an intense interest in others, which can be oh-so-sexy nonetheless; Ten's interest in others seems to be more "ooh, cool...next!", whereas I could easily see Nine collecting a TARDIS full of people whom he genuinely found interesting and exciting (Jabe and Nancy, for sure, on top of Rose and Jack). All that "I don't do domestic" is such bluster, he's all about making connections, even if he's a little gunshy about convention; Ten goes to dinner and hugs Jackie and all, but he's more willing to let someone go to save his own heartbreak than to give them his time and watch them die. (That still bugs me, can you tell?)

I'm sorry about the swipe at Angel - I definitely see the connection. One of my problems with RTD is that in DW, he takes all the things that I dislike about Joss Whedon (which are legion) and repeats them, only not as well - though with better actors on the whole. Angel bothered me, both as a character and as a show, primarily because I just find David Boreanaz boring. At least David Tennant has a certain energy that I understand people will find attractive, even if it annoys me.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I think with Jack, I'd be more worried about what would happen if his "no dying" situation was solved. He's obviously used to it almost. Like others noted, he's very firm in the knowledge that he can't die. So now he can be a little careless going into situations. What's he gonna do if he can die again? I don't see Jack easily switching to self preservation mode.

he's all about making connections, even if he's a little gunshy about convention

He's so about making connections. I know someone's post I've seen said that Nine just completely dismissed and hated people within ten seconds of meeting them, but I never saw that. He never had good reason to see why he should treat Mickey nicely; he treated Jabe wonderfull; he was pretty sweet and caring with Gwyneth and was a fan of Dickens; he wasn't so mean to Jackie and she did slap him so anyone would be weary around her, he took a quick shining to Harriet; "Dalek" wasn't really a great situation to make friends.

He encouraged Cathica to fight back and Suki had an immediate crush on him. I have the caps, she was constantly looking at him and smiled everytime she looked at him, got a hug from him. Nine tried to protect Pete; I think he respected Nancy pretty well, and was adorable with the kids and was angry with Jack for good reason; he had a good time with Rose, Jack and Mickey, I do have a special love for "Boom Town" in that it specifically shows us that Nine is having a good laugh with all THREE of them and includes Mickey without a second thought. He tries to save and flirts a bit with Lynda. Wow, I can't believe I just went off on an entire tangent.

I'm sorry about the swipe at Angel - I definitely see the connection

Oh it's fine! To be honest, I only watched like the first 10 episodes of season one, just until they killed Doyle and break my heart. And I didn't watch another episode until the middle of their last (5th) season.

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

I don't see Jack easily switching to self preservation mode.

No, it's going to take a jolt of some sort. I hope it's not a fall off a building!

I know someone's post I've seen said that Nine just completely dismissed and hated people within ten seconds of meeting them, but I never saw that.

Is this person watching the same show we are? I don't see how you can possibly get that out of what was shown. Nine is incredibly affectionate, really, more than Ten, he's just got a layer of bluster. Ten is much more dismissive, ignores people's feelings, and likes for everyone to tell him how great he is. For me, he's not "fun" or "playful" or "sexy" because he's selfish and superficial. To be blunt, you see all this swooning over his oral fixation, but I'll lay you sharp odds that he's only interested in making himself happy.

I think Nine thought Nancy was amazing. I love the tenderness on his face and in his voice when he asks, "Why would it be your fault?" He encouraged her to do something that was far more difficult in 1941 than it would be now (I think a lot of younger/more unaware fans completely miss that). I don't buy the argument that because Nine doesn't take action that he's not solving the problems. He's helping others to help themselves, which is better than swanning in and doing something of ambiguous assistance and expecting gratitude (Mr. "Don't you think she looks tired?" or "Here, let's just rip the brains out through the ears".) It's the old "give a man a fish/teach a man to fish" argument. Who, other than the villain, in S1 is worse off after interacting with the Doctor? Adam? Jabe (although it was her choice)? Gwyneth (ditto)? Pete, I would say is much better off. Lynda (although she would have died anyway)? But so many people are better off after he leaves, including Blon. I suppose there is an argument for Nine as the Saviour Doctor, a quasi-Christian figure presented to us by two atheists (although Christian principles, it can be argued, are also humanistic ones).

I can't believe I just went off on an entire tangent.

It's easy to do. I was just over at TWOP, and I still have a problem understanding why people thought that Ten and Mme P were so in love - well, they were because the script told them so, but it just doesn't come across to me.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I think some people's adoration of Ten can be completely superficial. That's annoying. Sure there are the people who have reasons that they like him, like the reasons I love Nine, but I usually run into the people who think OMG HE'S SO HOT AND SEXY. And...no.

love the tenderness on his face and in his voice when he asks, "Why would it be your fault?"

Oh God that gets me everytime. He has that little smile on his face, like he's trying to comfort her in the middle of everything and it's just so sweet and I loved him.

*huggles Nine*

My problem with the whole Ten and Reinette are in love thing is that I don't believe one can fall in love in one day, or less. I'm sure people have experienced that, but with all the experiences of the people I know and myself, it just doesn't happen. He fell in love with the idea that Reinette could be someone he'd love, or love to be with. I think I bought more that Reinette loved him that Ten loved her.

[spellingwitch.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to say I am totally enjoying this conversation and agree with you 100% about 9 & 10.

I also just don't understand how 10 could seal himself off with Reinette in the past without a way back and not be the least bit concerned that Rose and Mickey didn't have a way off that ship (not knowing how to fly the TARDIS), nor be concerned about being separated from Rose herself. Even though I love that episode I think the Doctor is entirely out of character.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

While I'm not completely happy with the episode, I don't really think it was out of the Doctor's character. I don't think he was really processing the idea that he just left it all behind. Maybe that was a little out of character, but then maybe he was trying to be nice to Reinette by waiting a little while before freaking out. *shrugs*

[acciochocolate.livejournal.com]

I also just don't understand how 10 could seal himself off with Reinette in the past without a way back and not be the least bit concerned that Rose and Mickey didn't have a way off that ship (not knowing how to fly the TARDIS), nor be concerned about being separated from Rose herself. Even though I love that episode I think the Doctor is entirely out of character.

It's not so much that he's out of character, although he is a little, as that this 2nd season is suffering from what is known as the TNG syndrome: suddenly there's only five minutes left to wrap the show up in, and the writers panic, and end up with a bad finish that feels often just tacked-on to what would have been an otherwise great episode.

One theory that I have seen advanced is that Ten would wait around for a while, then One would show up during the French Revolution, and Ten would persuade him to take him back to the 51st century. Nice theory, but full of holes; not to mention that the Doctor talks to Reinette about now having to take the slow path.

After this little outing, I find myself somewhat surprised that Rose stuck around. Oh well, the things we do for love. *sad smile* But there are those of us out there who basically agree with you! We are not many, but we are here!

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

Oh, I meant to say about Dalek - I think the Doctor did have a bit of an influence on Diana Goddard. It was subtle, but there are a couple of looks that suggest she's intrigued. Whether she's interested in him as a man or an alien, she was ready to pick up the ball ad run. I liked her, in a weird sort of not-liking her way. She is also impossibly tall, skinny, and stacked.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Very, very good point. I forgot about her, heh. And I think she's intrigued by him and that's why(after the whole torture thing) she doesn't really hesitate to help him.

God, I can get a lot of mileage out of this icon.

[tardisdoll.livejournal.com]

well first of all, I don't particularly mind the large icons tables. I like looking at everything, not just fandoms we have in common :D

and on the Jack suicide front, I really don't know. I like to believe he wouldn't do such a thing. I like to think maybe he was seriously injured a few times before "Everthing Changes", and that is how he found out he was immortal. Jack was all about living life to the full, and now he's going to live forever so he's confused. That's my theory anyway.

I don't have BBC3 *wails* It's only 3 days more, it's only 3 days more... :D

[romanticizing.livejournal.com]

My curious mind needs to know what is going on in your icon.

Anyway, yeah, I prefer a table per fandom. Just so it's organized and everything.

Re: Torchwood--I know I talked about the suicide angle, but it's still disturbing to me. That's just what came to mind for me in that scene. But really, we don't know what's happened. I don't think it's fine and dandy, though.

And I am really, really excited about tonight's episode. I hope I'll get to see it tonight.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Hee, my icon is from the new Battlestar Galactica. That's the beautiful Jamie Bamber (points to icon), he plays the role with an American accent, but really he has the most adorable British accent ever.

As you can tell, he gets a little naked in one episode.

I think it really comes to the fact that the people who seem so absolutely positive with the suicide angle and those that seem like it'd be natural are the ones that are bothering me.

I'm bouncing waiting for tonight's episode.

[romanticizing.livejournal.com]

Ooh I see. He looks.. interesting. Does he have a good fake American accent?

Ah, I see what you mean. Yeah, I don't really get that. Now I'm of the opinion that maybe he just got reckless after being abandoned and that's how he found out.

It's on right now!!! I am so tempted to go look at spoilers but I shall be patient. I would be bouncing if I had any energy!

[romanticizing.livejournal.com]

Haha, I'm such a nerd, I went and looked at those pictures and my first thought was how lovely those photographers' clouds were. :x But yeah, that guy is pretty. BSG is one of those shows I keep thinking maybe I should check out. But I watch too much TV already.

I was actually able to watch the episode at around 10 last night. Hopefully I'll be able to make a post soon. I see you've made one so I will comment there :)

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

With BSG, you'd really have to start from the beginning. The mini-series, season 1, season 2, and right now, season 3 just started, we're on episode 4/5.

Yeah, I just watched Torchwood early this afternoon.

[romanticizing.livejournal.com]

Wow, I didn't realize there was that much to get through already for BSG! Well, I guess it's not as daunting as old school Who..

I just decided I had to watch it last night no matter how late I had to stay up. But 10 p.m. was decent.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Actually BSG is a remake of the late seventy's show. The old show was crap. Luckily, like I said, this is a remake so no having to watch those episodes. I think in total, you'd have about 33 episodes and the miniseries and then you'll be up to the current series.

I didn't get the episode until 1am, so lucky you!

[romanticizing.livejournal.com]

Ah, right, OK. 33 episodes isn't too bad. Maybe I will give it a try. I have so many shows I mean to watch though. Veronica Mars is another. I really liked the first episode and somehow never watched any more.

Ah, well, we have our different methods of obtaining episodes :) If I can get the others by 10 p.m. I will be happy. That's a decent sleep schedule.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Yeah, not too bad. I have VM S1 on DVD. Just saying.

I think I'm going to have to get used to the fact that I'll probably be watching Torchwood on Mondays. As long as I get too, I'm not really complaining.

[romanticizing.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I have somewhere I can get it, I think, I just need to make myself watch it already. I liked the first episode a lot, and I keep hearing people say how great it is. And supposedly there's a film noir thing going on? Really excited about that.

A few hours' difference isn't really that big a deal. I wish I could make myself wait till then, just to stretch it out, but I'm so impatient :x Less than 24 hours is kind of incredible for an overseas show.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I love VM S1, it had a slump in S2 and I haven't seen enough to know about S3. But S1 rocks my socks, and the best relationship is between the main character, Veronica and her dad. Love.

It's funny. I watched DW, with CE, constantly on SciFi when it was running. Now that DT's season is on, I wonder if my dad's wondering why I'm not so hardcore about watching it. He asked me actually how it was so far.

[mastermarkh.livejournal.com]

I like big tables, you never know when you might come across an icon you really like that isn't from a fandom you'd normally look at... also I like to recommend icons to other friends of mine who are into other stuff.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I think what I'm going to do is put each fandom in it's own table, put keep it all in one post.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Me too!

[wordsalone.livejournal.com]

1) Your icons make me happy

2) What's the theory? Can you explain it a bit more to me? I haven't really had the time to check out the Torchwood stuff out there.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

1) Thank you. :)

2) I think the theory goes: Some people seem to thing that since Jack is so firm in his belief that he can't die, he must have tried suicide.

I think it stems from the idea that he's so dark now, and the idea of being left behind left him depressed and trying to kill himself, especially after learning he couldn't die.

[wordsalone.livejournal.com]

Oh...that's interesting. Huh. Morbid and sad but it kind of makes sense.

*runs and hides*

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Well, it does in a very morbid way.

[mscam.livejournal.com]

Addressing your first question about the icons. Personally I would prefer separate tables for fandoms. Whilst I share your passion for some shows, others not so much! ;) And I do *love* your icons.

Secondly, I just can't go with the suicide theory for Jack. I took his actions as Jack being, well, Jack! Gung ho, enthusiastic, pushing everything to it's limits, always looking for the next adventure. So, why not treat his "immortality" the way he treats everything else?

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I think that's the main consensus, re:icons. I'll be trying this out tomorrow!

There ya go, that seems like the theory I'd be sticking with.

[acciochocolate.livejournal.com]

I didn't know about this theory, but then, I'm staying away from most TW meta since I have only seen the first episode, due to the kindness of a friend.

And that brings me to the icon table question. As one of those poor creatures on dial-up, I would like to mention that since about half of all Americans are stuck on dial-up (they live in rural areas without it, they live in neighbors without broadband, they can't afford it, etc.), the larger icon posts are very time-consuming to download.
So breaking them up would be fine by me.

At any rate, I think that posting each icon group (grouped by TV show or film or whatever) would be a great way to go. :) There might be those who want only
Doctor Who icons and not Torchwood, for example. So separate posts would seem to be the way to go. :) *makes hopeful kitten eyes*

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Which brings me to thinking about starting a graphics comm where I wouldn't feel so bad about doing separate posts!

Now I definitely will be thinking much more about the graphics comm. Probably transfer all my work over there as well.

Thank you for the input!