I just realised I have never actually read any 9/Jack! Though that could be cos I'm normally reading old-school dr/dr or dr/companion-of-different-dr crack!fic =/ =D
That's why I said strictly slash. Because otherwise, I'm completely ruled by Nine/Rose. I'm not really a OT3 girl because I'm not really a fan of Jack/Rose. For me, just my opinion, they don't go well together.
I have gone silly for Ten/Jack, which overlaps with Nine/Jack. I think I didn't slash them before because Nine was too focussed on Rose? Nine I didn't have millions of ships for like I do with Ten. There was like... Nine/Jabe because OMGWEIRDTREESEX and I thought he had UST with Harriet and no one else did so maybe I am perverted in some way.
I may be contaminated by fandom, where a Roseless Nine is almost unthinkable. So it's like think of Nine, think of Rose, think of their love. It got driven pretty hard on screen though, and could obscure Nine's slutiness a bit. (Am I odd, though, that "asexual before Rose" just seems totally insane as a concept? Not even counting the fact that the Doctor had kids at some point, Nine just doesn't act like he's shocked by his own libido. Yet it seems a relatively popular concept?)
We may...not see eye-to-eye on Nine. But then, it's not a secret that I'm a huge Nine-lover. I don't think they were pushed hard and I don't think he was obsessed with her. *shrugs* But now I must provide proof that Nine was a slut. Sometime this weekend maybes.
What part of having a granddaughter makes you asexual? I suppose being relatively new in fandom I really don't understand the asexual arguments.
I lose at Nine. :( Maybe I never quite got him or something. That and the phenomenon where the less you like a ship the more you can see it being there, which is a theory intended to be about fic, but it probably goes for telly as well. There's someone out there who hates the idea of Doctor/K-9 and thinks School Reunion was full of robot sex. Possibly. It'd be kind of funny if there was.
But Nine's thing for Jabe I could totally see. If she hadn't turned to charcoal they could have been great together.
What part of having a granddaughter makes you asexual?
The part where she's clearly just some kid you know and her calling you "grandfather" is affectionate and... no, I don't really know either.
You get some and you don't get some. There's ten different interpretations of the Doctors, you have you pick. I think we were robbed of Jabe the companion. She would have rocked.
I...don't think I would ever call any random old man "grandfather" so unless he had a horrible fetish and she was in on it...
I think we were robbed of Jabe the companion. She would have rocked.
And we could have had so many jokes about wood! We was robbed!
I...don't think I would ever call any random old man "grandfather" so unless he had a horrible fetish and she was in on it...
O_O True. And disturbing. I think "The Doctor has made a baby via sex at some point" is waaaay less worrying than "So, the Doctor picked up this fifteen year old girl, lived with her in a junkyard, and made her call him 'grandfather' all the time."
But...Nine was a slut. How come nobody but me sees this?
I do! Although I think in his case, it's less "slutty" and more, shall we say, "sex-positive".
I've never understood how some people insist that Nine was frightened about sex or commitment - he's all over it, he just keeps saying he doesn't do "domestic" - while quietly assembling a family around himself. I could totally see Jabe, Harriet, Dickens, Suki, Cathica, Lynda, and Nancy (+Jamie) coming on board the Love Shack TARDIS. I think what's great about his "flirtatiousness" or "sluttiness" is that it isn't narcissistic or merely about immediate gratification, it's about connection. I love that he tells Lynda that she's sweet (yeah *little laugh* dead sweet). He's not trying to pull. He's trying to make her feel better, but he genuinely means it.
I think with a couple people he met, he liked them quite well (Harriet) or they took an instant liking to him (Suki), either way, Nine was adored quite a bit by some of the people he met.
I think what's great about his "flirtatiousness" or "sluttiness" is that it isn't narcissistic or merely about immediate gratification, it's about connection.
I thought he had UST with Harriet and no one else did so maybe I am perverted in some way.
I definitely got a whole shockwave of chemistry between Nine and Harriet. As I said in another reply, I think Nine, for all his damage and protestations of "I don't do domestic", is actually going around making connections all the time. He's intensely interested and seems openly sex-positive, so his interactions with and reactions to Jabe, Jack (after initial hostilities cease - always good for UST), Dickens, Harriet, Suki, Cathica, and Lynda in particular are all open-bodied and intensely focused. It's not about "pulling" - but he so could, because that kind of focus is irresistibly sexy. It's not "Hey, check me out," it's "Hey, check you out."
I don't know about Ten/Jack - above and beyond the fact that Jack is going to be sooo pissed off about being left behind, the personality shift is going to completely change the relationship - Jack was an alpha who found, and revelled in, an alpha-plus in Nine; Ten is no alpha.
All apologies for the spammage to both of you - I'm on a hotel wireless system that seems to be warping into another dimension - it kept telling me things weren't posting, and then, wham! three! I'm not even going to attempt to fix the formatting, because things might explode.
I'm really sorry for the inconvenience and clutter!
I'm sure if someone made a Doctor Who Bible, that would be in there, somewhere:
Twenty-Second Rule of Doctor Who Pairings: Nine/Jack Trumps All. First Corollary: Though, Nine/Jack/Rose isn't half bad. Second Corollary: And throwing the Tardis in the mix is never unwelcome. Note: Jack/Hand also counts as an extension of Nine/Jack, due to the fact Jack has yet to meet Ten.
Actually for me, of all pairings, Nine/Rose pretty much trumps. Actually it's tied for Doctor/TARDIS. But for slash, it'll always be Nine/Jack. And I just have to words for the EWW of Jack/Hand. hehe, I just can't get it.
I almost nearly get squicked by Jack/Hand, I think the worst part is that it could so easily be canon. Maybe not, like, sexual practices with the hand, but him...leaning somewhat towards that. I mean, the way he was HOLDING it ::shakes head::
I sort of hope we never see the hand again. Maybe confirmation on the show that it's the Doctor's because not everyone knows, I'm sure, but other than that, NO MORE HAND PLEASE.
::snicker:: I'm half tempted to wish for an episode where Jack spends half of it obsessing about the hand, just because I bet you'll have an incredibly amusing post about it ^.^
I'm just thinking it's going to be really awkward for someone when it's revealed that it's the Doctors. And I get so easily embarrassed for fictional characters.
Hm, I wonder if there's a direct linkage to the level of amusement garnered from a post and the amount of freak-out inspired caplocks....
OMG, yes. I was blushing. Especially because they were giving her a hard time about it, too. Because at first it was sort of like a semi-decent cover...not a good one, but if she wasn't attempting to get into a super-secret, extra-governmental, alien-hunting facility, it wouldn't have been that bad. I get embarrassed for her a lot. She's a bit thick, sometimes (like when she threw that chisel...gods, cringe-worthy moment, totally).
Yep, the new kid at school, trying to escape the fact they were a loser at their old one.
Though, those sorts of things are why I don't begrudge Gwen the scenes with Jack, like with the gun!porn scene, because Jack seems to be doing his best to make her feel better about her place there, even if that involves more PDA between the two than I want.
I like the relationship developing between Jack and Gwen because I feel that it's gonna be a real friendship. Sure there's some sexual tension there, but it's not more than I would expect. Some pretty standard stuff. And other stuff...that I shall call spoilers.
Like the kiss? My icon says all I believe that scene to have been.
Oh, are there spoilers about the two of them? I missed those, then.
Great icon ^.^ It was a very sweet kiss, yeah. Exactly as I thought it should be, with no sexual tension. Kind of showing depths of a more platonic love.
Totally. Poor Jack. Plus, I'm sure all the issues with Rose and the Doctor probably make him question himself a lot with relationships. And Gwen is very simple, very human. Since he brought her into all of it, he might also feel he has a bit more control over all of it--it's not Rose in the Tardis giving him the choice between going with them or dying on his ship, it's him inviting someone into Torchwood, knowing that her curiosity would draw her in.
Yeah. I wonder if he saw her curiosity and thought: I want that around here. The others don't seem to want to ask him the questions, as the dinner scene in "Day One" seems to suggest. Maybe he's uncomfortable with it, but he wants to be asked questions.
Mm, yes, I can see that. He must have so much information, about so many things that these 21st Century humans don't know, and added to that all the secrets about himself...it must be hard to keep that all bottled up, to keep himself locked down like that. Especially considering that, from what we saw in DW, he likes to give out little bits of information, maybe nothing too exciting, but still things he's not sharing in TW.
They have a wonderful balance and symmetry in their emotional makeup (and they do look fabulous together, but that's only good for a few boring PWP stories), It is difficult to do pure Jack/Nine slash (I just don't believe, or even like the idea of, Ten/Jack slash) because of Rose - they both love her too much to hurt her, and it would. Unless she got to play, too. But Boji and Consternatio have written some stories that work well (the Rose issue isn't really dealt with much in either) - and Amberite's "Survivor's Guilt" may be a little tough to take, but it makes great emotional sense.
I don't think I could ever read straight Jack/Nine fic just as reading Jack/Rose fic makes me a little queasy. Like you said, a lot of time if it's just Jack/Nine, Rose is excluded and I don't think they would do that. And Jack/Rose seems wrong to me, even though in a sense it'd be healthier than Nine/Rose. Not a whole lot, but some. I think.
Heathier in terms that they're both humans and nearer to the same age, even if they are from different centuries. And I don't think Jack would be possessive in a way that Nine could be. I put the emphasis because I still don't see that all consuming possessiveness that everyone talks about with Nine.
Probably not so healthy in execution terms. Rose seems to get attached pretty quickly and definitely has trouble letting go, and I don't think that at that time of his life Jack would be appreciating that aspect of Rose.
Did you see the fic earlier that mentioned Jack was having daddy issues and that the Doctor was like a father figure?
Possibly just because I got in a mini-fight with someone over whether a 19-year-old would think a 40-year-old was "gross".
You know, I do have problems with age gaps in relationships. And it's not because it's gross. For me, it comes down to a much more personal problem. What if they want to have children? If a 25 year old woman is with a 45 year old man, the man will be retired by the time the kid graduates high school and that sort of thing always bugged me.
But then in some of the May-December romances, you do see that they're just these two people who can't let age get in the way because they're just so utterly in love and I find it hard to object.
Now, 19 and 900 is one hell of an age gap if I may say so and it does squick me a bit when I think about but more because it almost would be the Doctor taking advantage of Rose, whether or not she was consenting. Or it's just my mind being weird. I'm glad their relationship, or at least Nine/Rose's was somewhat vague.
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timeasmymeasure
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Date: 2006-11-03 07:33 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2006-11-04 05:19 am (UTC)What part of having a granddaughter makes you asexual? I suppose being relatively new in fandom I really don't understand the asexual arguments.
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Date: 2006-11-04 05:41 am (UTC)But Nine's thing for Jabe I could totally see. If she hadn't turned to charcoal they could have been great together.
What part of having a granddaughter makes you asexual?
The part where she's clearly just some kid you know and her calling you "grandfather" is affectionate and... no, I don't really know either.
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Date: 2006-11-04 06:13 am (UTC)I...don't think I would ever call any random old man "grandfather" so unless he had a horrible fetish and she was in on it...
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Date: 2006-11-04 06:22 am (UTC)And we could have had so many jokes about wood! We was robbed!
I...don't think I would ever call any random old man "grandfather" so unless he had a horrible fetish and she was in on it...
O_O True. And disturbing. I think "The Doctor has made a baby via sex at some point" is waaaay less worrying than "So, the Doctor picked up this fifteen year old girl, lived with her in a junkyard, and made her call him 'grandfather' all the time."
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Date: 2006-11-04 04:19 pm (UTC)I do! Although I think in his case, it's less "slutty" and more, shall we say, "sex-positive".
I've never understood how some people insist that Nine was frightened about sex or commitment - he's all over it, he just keeps saying he doesn't do "domestic" - while quietly assembling a family around himself. I could totally see Jabe, Harriet, Dickens, Suki, Cathica, Lynda, and Nancy (+Jamie) coming on board the
Love ShackTARDIS. I think what's great about his "flirtatiousness" or "sluttiness" is that it isn't narcissistic or merely about immediate gratification, it's about connection. I love that he tells Lynda that she's sweet (yeah *little laugh* dead sweet). He's not trying to pull. He's trying to make her feel better, but he genuinely means it.no subject
Date: 2006-11-05 01:38 am (UTC)I think what's great about his "flirtatiousness" or "sluttiness" is that it isn't narcissistic or merely about immediate gratification, it's about connection.
And he made some wonderful connections.
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Date: 2006-11-04 04:45 pm (UTC)I definitely got a whole shockwave of chemistry between Nine and Harriet. As I said in another reply, I think Nine, for all his damage and protestations of "I don't do domestic", is actually going around making connections all the time. He's intensely interested and seems openly sex-positive, so his interactions with and reactions to Jabe, Jack (after initial hostilities cease - always good for UST), Dickens, Harriet, Suki, Cathica, and Lynda in particular are all open-bodied and intensely focused. It's not about "pulling" - but he so could, because that kind of focus is irresistibly sexy. It's not "Hey, check me out," it's "Hey, check you out."
I don't know about Ten/Jack - above and beyond the fact that Jack is going to be sooo pissed off about being left behind, the personality shift is going to completely change the relationship - Jack was an alpha who found, and revelled in, an alpha-plus in Nine; Ten is no alpha.
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Date: 2006-11-04 04:55 pm (UTC)I'm really sorry for the inconvenience and clutter!
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Date: 2006-11-05 01:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-05 01:50 am (UTC)Twenty-Second Rule of Doctor Who Pairings: Nine/Jack Trumps All.
First Corollary: Though, Nine/Jack/Rose isn't half bad.
Second Corollary: And throwing the Tardis in the mix is never unwelcome.
Note: Jack/Hand also counts as an extension of Nine/Jack, due to the fact Jack has yet to meet Ten.
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Date: 2006-11-05 02:32 am (UTC)I'm just thinking it's going to be really awkward for someone when it's revealed that it's the Doctors. And I get so easily embarrassed for fictional characters.
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Date: 2006-11-05 02:35 am (UTC)I get easily embarrassed for characters as well. In the first episode (of Torchwood) when Gwen goes in with the pizza, I felt so uncomfortable.
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Date: 2006-11-05 02:39 am (UTC)OMG, yes. I was blushing. Especially because they were giving her a hard time about it, too. Because at first it was sort of like a semi-decent cover...not a good one, but if she wasn't attempting to get into a super-secret, extra-governmental, alien-hunting facility, it wouldn't have been that bad. I get embarrassed for her a lot. She's a bit thick, sometimes (like when she threw that chisel...gods, cringe-worthy moment, totally).
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Date: 2006-11-05 04:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-05 04:42 am (UTC)Though, those sorts of things are why I don't begrudge Gwen the scenes with Jack, like with the gun!porn scene, because Jack seems to be doing his best to make her feel better about her place there, even if that involves more PDA between the two than I want.
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Date: 2006-11-05 04:48 am (UTC)I like the relationship developing between Jack and Gwen because I feel that it's gonna be a real friendship. Sure there's some sexual tension there, but it's not more than I would expect. Some pretty standard stuff. And other stuff...that I shall call spoilers.
Like the kiss? My icon says all I believe that scene to have been.
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Date: 2006-11-05 04:51 am (UTC)Great icon ^.^ It was a very sweet kiss, yeah. Exactly as I thought it should be, with no sexual tension. Kind of showing depths of a more platonic love.
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Date: 2006-11-05 04:54 am (UTC)Yeah. I think that'd be nice for Jack to have, someone to support and love him without having to worry about all the messy relationship stuff.
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Date: 2006-11-05 05:01 am (UTC)Totally. Poor Jack. Plus, I'm sure all the issues with Rose and the Doctor probably make him question himself a lot with relationships. And Gwen is very simple, very human. Since he brought her into all of it, he might also feel he has a bit more control over all of it--it's not Rose in the Tardis giving him the choice between going with them or dying on his ship, it's him inviting someone into Torchwood, knowing that her curiosity would draw her in.
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Date: 2006-11-05 05:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-04 04:08 pm (UTC)They have a wonderful balance and symmetry in their emotional makeup (and they do look fabulous together, but that's only good for a few boring PWP stories), It is difficult to do pure Jack/Nine slash (I just don't believe, or even like the idea of, Ten/Jack slash) because of Rose - they both love her too much to hurt her, and it would. Unless she got to play, too. But Boji and Consternatio have written some stories that work well (the Rose issue isn't really dealt with much in either) - and Amberite's "Survivor's Guilt" may be a little tough to take, but it makes great emotional sense.
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Date: 2006-11-05 01:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-15 02:22 am (UTC)Not that I necessarily disagree, I'm just wondering if you could articulate why you think Jack/Rose might be healthier than Nine/Rose?
Possibly just because I got in a mini-fight with someone over whether a 19-year-old would think a 40-year-old was "gross".
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Date: 2006-11-15 04:59 am (UTC)Probably not so healthy in execution terms. Rose seems to get attached pretty quickly and definitely has trouble letting go, and I don't think that at that time of his life Jack would be appreciating that aspect of Rose.
Did you see the fic earlier that mentioned Jack was having daddy issues and that the Doctor was like a father figure?
Possibly just because I got in a mini-fight with someone over whether a 19-year-old would think a 40-year-old was "gross".
You know, I do have problems with age gaps in relationships. And it's not because it's gross. For me, it comes down to a much more personal problem. What if they want to have children? If a 25 year old woman is with a 45 year old man, the man will be retired by the time the kid graduates high school and that sort of thing always bugged me.
But then in some of the May-December romances, you do see that they're just these two people who can't let age get in the way because they're just so utterly in love and I find it hard to object.
Now, 19 and 900 is one hell of an age gap if I may say so and it does squick me a bit when I think about but more because it almost would be the Doctor taking advantage of Rose, whether or not she was consenting. Or it's just my mind being weird. I'm glad their relationship, or at least Nine/Rose's was somewhat vague.
I don't really know where I was going with that.