This post may contain spoilers, I'll try to be careful

[meganlynn09]

What do you do when your favorite show is doing things you like and things you don't like and the fandom of that show is going crazy?

I hate having this problem with BSG. It's a great show and a lot of things have happened that I like and a lot of things I don't like. I liked this past Friday's episode, but I wasn't blown away and knowing spoilers for the finale, I just hope it looks better than it sounds.

I just hate what RDM has done to my favorite character. If you are reading this then you know that's Lee. I like Kara, and it seems everywhere I go, everyone is really protective of her, well, that's me with Lee. He's been my fave since the beginning, I relate the most to him. In the beginning he needed structure and directions/orders, alike myself. It seems like none of the writers like him as much as I do though and that sucks. I mean, like in "The Captain's Hand" people seem to think that Lee was in the wrong for yelling at Kara.  NO HE WASN'T!!  She was a royal bitch to him and he had good reason to be pissed off at her!  And it had nothing to do with the fact she shot him, yes he brought it up, but he didn't say "Since you shot me" no, he was telling her that yes he's had a tough time of it since he was shot. 

I kept seeing Lee give and give and Kara take and take from this friendship and she hasn't offered anything in return.

And someone explain to me what's awesome about Kara/Anders.  Yes, Kara deserves some happiness, yes, Anders is an okay character, but I do not want them together.  IT IS NOT BECAUSE I AM SOME DIEHARD LEE/KARA FAN.  Just like Lee/Dualla, the writers were horrible with the setup.  And if the timeline is to be believed from "Downloaded", Kara and Anders knew each other for mere days.  10 weeks my ass.

And with LDYB Pt. 1, the scene with Kara and Lee PISSED ME OFF!  Lee is there basically saying, "Come back alive" and she is like "Can I go now?"  This season seems to want us to come away with the thought that Kara doesn't give a damn about Lee, and how are we supposed to contradict that?  What happened to "The Captain's Hand"?  I thought they were on good ground.

I hate this bitching, but I just can't stand it.  The fandom is just making this worse.  People are going to stop watching because they fear Lee and Kara will never get together?  Do people not understand that it's possible to grow apart?  Do I want Kara and Lee to get together sometime in the future?  Yes, if they can still love each other and take care of each other which they can't do right now.  That's what they need to except from each other, the support.

So, help me survive the fandom, please!!!!

And notice that I didn't mention Lee/Dualla?  Or at least complain about them.  Much.

Comments

[latteaddict.livejournal.com]

Kara definitely is keeping Lee at a distance. And I think that if Kara had any doubts about giving her heart to Anders instead of Lee, they were instantly washed away by Lee EASILY going from one woman to the next. Lee hooking up with Dee so soon after Scar was proof to Kara that Lee doesn't feel very much for her beyond frienship. And Kara does seem to have a big need to be loved. She was engaged to Zak, so it proves that Kara wants to be a wife. She doesn't want to be tough and fight all the time.

The two moves that Lee has ever put on Kara can be looked at as a result of friendship. Home1, he kissed her on the spur of the moment because he was relieved. And when he said he loved her, he couched it in friendship. But Lee doesn't seem to have a problem letting other women know he's interested, so if you stack up the evidence, Lee hasn't tried very hard with Kara, so Kara is clinging to someone who isn't afraid to tell her that he wants her.

Maybe Lee is used to women pursuing him like the way Dualla did? It could be an ego thing and he wants Kara to pursue him as well.

But I think Kara is the same, she is used to being pursued by men. It must've been pretty humilating for Kara when she made the first move on Lee in Scar to just have him stop and reject her. She was still trying to kiss him when he pulled away. And I think her outburst to Lee was a reaction to that rejection. Ans as usual, Lee couches all of his responses to her with "Kara, I'm also your friend." So maybe Kara has finally gotten the message that Lee is happy with the women he has in his life and he only sees her as his friend.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Thank you for replying!

At this point, all of my thoughts haven't even been from a romantic relationship viewpoint. I think RDM was trying to emphasize their friendship and that was what was making me mad with some of the things happening. They want each other but they are both aware that it's not the time to even want to act on it, especially after "Scar".

I'm so sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree on the fact I didn't see Lee rejecting Kara. He just wanted to know why she was getting so agressive and I saw it as SHE was rejecting HIM at that point. I think maybe if she had slowed down, they would have continued. But that's my opinion and people have interpretated each scene this season differently.

I wish I could ignore "Black Market" because I can understand Lee going to a woman off of Galactica, but a prostitute? I don't know how to interprete that.

I think the problem is that some people are thinking that Lee should be the initiator and that's not right, IMO. Kara needs to be the one to let Lee know, yes there is something here.

And I can see that Kara has that need to be loved, that's completely understandable. And I like Anders. I just, I dunno. They rub me in the wrong way, I just think it's because they decided to make Kara pine for him a couple months later. And the Lee/Dualla relationship didn't bother me until Friday's episode when RDM proved that everything we needed to understand the relationship, care about it, was dropped. And I think I'm bothered by the fact that for once, Lee and Kara are not on equal ground. Kara has found Anders, that "tangible" love, and has that fulfilment of finding him. Lee has Dualla, but what has he fulfilled? Nothing, he still has that void. IMHO.

I'm sorry to sound so disagreeing when you were nice enough to reply. I just don't want to come across as someone who thinks Lee does no wrong and Kara is evil. I don't. I just have interpreted scenes differently. Lee isn't perfect, he could have been way more tactful in "Scar" and Kara does need some happiness. It's hard to continually judge what the writer's really want us to think. I mean, the actors can only do so much.

Thanks again for replying!

[latteaddict.livejournal.com]

I think I'm bothered by the fact that for once, Lee and Kara are not on equal ground. Kara has found Anders, that "tangible" love, and has that fulfilment of finding him. Lee has Dualla, but what has he fulfilled? Nothing, he still has that void. IMHO.

If you don't mind me fanwanking, I'll tell you why I think the show is doing that ON PURPOSE.

If both K/L were completely happy in other relationships, then there would be no point in 'shipping them anymore. One of them has to be holding out for the other to come around. They have obviously chosen it to be Lee.

Unless they make Anders a permanent cast member (which I doubt) He shouldn't be around for very long. So Kara actually falling in real love is okay because Anders won't be with her forever.

If they had chosen to make Kara pine for Lee while he was getting busy with Dee, it wouldn't have worked properly because Dee IS a permanent cast member (unless they are planning of getting rid of her too - but I doubt it)

So my fanwank is, is that Kara will lose Anders one way or another and Lee is going to be there to pick up the pieces. And it will piss Dualla off and it might finally end their relationship.

This would put Kara and Lee back on solid friendship again without the pesky intrusion of other lovers. And then maybe we can enjoy seeing them fall in love properly this time :)

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I am completely spoiled for the finale so I know somethings, and I won't say anything, but I think some shippers will not be happy. If you want to know any of the spoilers (I think people should wait, I posted a message so people can read it and prepare for next week) I posted it on the ApolloStarbuckFic yahoo group, I believe you are a member of?

But I think you are completely right. It does make more sense for Lee to pine because Kara, I think, would handle it differently. Where Lee would continue to be Kara's friend and be there for her, Kara would withdrawl and why would the writers want that when they have such wonderful chemistry?

Sorry for being so wordy, but...

[roadrunnerdm.livejournal.com]

It seems like none of the writers like him as much as I do though and that sucks.
I'm not sure what led you to make this conclusion. Lee's story arc hasn't been artfully dealt with at times this season, but the same could also be said of every character, especially Bill Adama who is the central anchor of the show. Character development in general was sloppier this season than last, and Ron Moore has admitted that. Hopefully things will improve in that regard for season 3, but Lee actually received quite a fair share of attention in season 2. He was only absent from 1 episode (Downloaded), whereas both Kara and Bill had only cameo appearances until episode 4 and Kara was entirely absent from 3 episodes. Jamie Bamber has a very good relationship with the writers and although an extended storyline was developed specifically at Katee's request (ie Anders), Jamie admits that he doesn't have a wish list of his own of stories for Lee and he trusts the writers to do the job.

I mean, like in "The Captain's Hand" people seem to think that Lee was in the wrong for yelling at Kara. NO HE WASN'T!! She was a royal bitch to him and he had good reason to be pissed off at her! And it had nothing to do with the fact she shot him
You are far from alone in this opinion. In fact, I've seen only a handful who thought Lee was being "mean" to Kara, whereas most people fully recognize that she really did need a kick in the ass and it was long overdue. I would disagree that it had nothing to do with the shooting, but the shooting was only a part of it. Kara has been running rampant, defying orders, acting unprofessional and insubordinate, and being lax in her responsibilities for months. Three people have died and 2 others were seriously injured as a result of her antics, including Lee himself, but Kara was never held accountable nor did she ever attempt to admit to her mistakes or apologize. Lee was 100% correct in demanding that Kara should straighten up, stop neglecting her duties, and act like a professional for a change. Kara, in typical Starbuck fashion, responded by getting defensive and trying to play the victim, avoiding any sense of responsibility -- just as she has always done when with faced with due criticism.

I kept seeing Lee give and give and Kara take and take from this friendship and she hasn't offered anything in return.
Again, this is a very common opinion. Someone else recently pointed out that Lee and his father have in fact been acting as "enablers" for Kara's abusive and addictive tendencies. I think that was a very accurate description. In their compassion for her, they have allowed her to evade responsibility regardless of the serious consequences and they have done her no favors as her behavior remains unchanged and she has learned nothing from her mistakes. She saved Lee's life at Ragnar, but since then has done nothing to show him any support or compassion, even when she knew that Lee was potentially suicidal and was stil recovering from a near fatal injury (that she herself inflicted). "Poor Lee, your life has been so hard," is a downright cruel thing to say to someone whom you know is struggling with depression, but Kara has always exhibited a very selfish nature that leaves her inclined to focus solely upon her own pain while being critical and dismissive of the suffering of others. Lee, Racetrack, and Kat are all prime examples.

... to be continued...

... still being wordy

[roadrunnerdm.livejournal.com]

And someone explain to me what's awesome about Kara/Anders. ... Just like Lee/Dualla, the writers were horrible with the setup.
I also don't understand the argument that some have made that Lee/Dee sucks because it came out of nowhere, but Kara/Anders is just fine and dandy. The audience didn't have the luxury of observing Lee and Dee grow their relationship, but at least we do know from canon that they developed their friendship and love affair over a period of more than 7 months. I wish that most of this development hadn't been left on the cutting room floor, but from the characters' perspective it was anything but an overnight occurrence and it grew out of some very important shared experiences. Kara/Anders, on the other hand, WAS an overnight occurrence. I don't mind the prospect of seeing Kara and Anders together as a couple, since Kara obviously is not a suitable partner for Lee at this point and Anders is a nice piece of eye candy, but I can't invest in Kara and Anders as a couple until they've at least done more than play one game of pyramid.

This season seems to want us to come away with the thought that Kara doesn't give a damn about Lee, and how are we supposed to contradict that? What happened to "The Captain's Hand"? I thought they were on good ground.
I viewed that scene as essentially confirmation that they have both moved on to a different place in their relationship. Kara cares about Lee, but she was, after all, about to risk her life (and the lives of many others) in an attempt to retrieve Anders from Caprica -- and let's be honest, it is all about Anders for her. She made her choice back in "Scar" that she didn't want Lee as more than a friend, and Lee is now okay with that. He has since moved on and found happiness with Dee, but it was still an awkward situation on Pegasus, with Lee trying to wish her well in her efforts to find the guy that she tromped him for and Kara has never been good with reciprocating heartfelt emotions. She responds to awkward situations by cutting and running, as always.

The fandom is just making this worse. People are going to stop watching because they fear Lee and Kara will never get together? Do people not understand that it's possible to grow apart?
Most of the fandom understands it just fine and doesn't have a problem with it. There are, in fact, just as many people who don't want Lee and Kara to ever get together as those who do, and most of those who do want it to happen someday recognize that now is not the time. Actually, a good portion of the fandom wants to see less of the romantic elements out of fear that the show is turning into a soap opera. The people who are bitterly gnashing their teeth over Anders and/or Dee are the considerable minority, but as should be expected, the voices of the discontent are predictably loud.

Contrary to the obvious hopes of a few ardent shippers, BSG was never intended... nor will it ever become... a Lee/Kara centric romance story. Lee and Kara may one day fall in love, but if that happens it will be only a minor element in what is a very complex show with a large central cast. It's entirely possible that Lee and Kara have been given romantic interests with secondary characters for just the purpose of avoiding having every story revolve around a Lee/Kara romance. Lee and Kara can now interact in a variety of circumstances without having every conversation and every event diverted toward their love affair. For now, this actually opens more doors for the duo while closing none.

Okay, I'm done now. Really.

Re: ... still being wordy

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Thank you for your relies! I really have nothing to argue with here except give you a big WORD!

Most of my post seemed angry because of a specific board I read, not from how I believe most of the fans feel. I know it was a minority that was upsetting me and I should have pointed that out with my post.

I actually posted today that I have a problem dealing with people whose opinions differ a lot from mine. It all comes down to the interpretation and sometimes I just cannot agree and like I said in my recent post, makes me wonder if they watch the same show or if they're sane. :)

Thanks again for your awesome comments!!