*sigh*

[meganlynn09]

This really isn't a rant.

Okay, so a while ago, before I even knew what the hell fandom was, I used to watch shows and not really have a problem with the pairings on them.

When Buffy and Angel were considered soul mates, at the time I bought into that. Just like I loved Buffy and Riley.

Same thing with Dawson's Creek, don't laugh!, I loved Joey and Dawson and then I loved Joey and Pacey. Ultimately though, Pacey/Joey pwned all.

Gilmore Girls, that show was made for people to ship Lorelai/Luke, I swear! Don't ask me about the show now where it's screwing over ALL the viewers, but there ya go.

Here comes my problem, it's shortly after I get into GG about 2(?) years ago that I discovered this thing called fandom and I found out what it was like to not flow with them.

This didn't actually happen though until I dived into the Battlestar Galactica fandom on LJ. I was huge into that fandom when I joined LJ over a year ago. And I figured out that some of my feelings were in the minority. In fact, as the show continues, a lot of my feelings still continue to be in the minority. But this isn't my point.

As I matured and became more aware and participated in these new fandoms, which today includes Doctor Who and Stargate: Atlantis, I'm finding out what it's like to not like a canon couple and the most popular pairings.

I sometimes wish I were.

I really wish that I could enjoy fandom's biggest pairing in Stargate: Atlantis. I wish I could see the "chemistry", romantic to some I suppose, between Sheppard and McKay. But I don't. I like their friendship. But that's all I could describe it as. (My favorite character on this show also seems to get the most hate in fandom, but not from most viewers it seems).

I really wish that I could have enjoyed Ten/Rose together(wish I could have liked Ten more, but that's something else). I wish I saw in them what so many others do.

I wish I liked...uh, actually I don't wish I liked Jack/Ianto from Torchwood, popular pairing or not, canon or not, they're never going to get me to like it or make it appeal to me.

That doesn't mean I don't like the pairings I'm into. I LOVE and ADORE John/Elizabeth and Nine/Rose. I love finding people who love them like me, others who love Elizabeth.

You know, I could actually list John/Elizabeth with the before fandom list because I saw "The Seige Part 3" before I was in fandoms on LJ, way before. I liked them before I was really into the show. I think what I saw in that hug was what really lured me into watching. And seeing the kiss from "The Long Goodbye" on trailers. Ahem.

But I just wish sometimes I saw more...I don't know. I just wish I could be a little more relaxed with the pairings I don't like and don't see.

I think a lot of this started because of DW, the few fights I saw about Nine/Rose and Ten/Rose. I hardly ever saw actual points! All I saw were shallow observations that made me want to strangle some of the people!

Okay, and I do have one little rant.


UM...if you haven't seen "Doomsday", this might be spoilery, but just a little bit.

PLEASE STOP WITH ICONNING THE FUCKING BEACH SCENE AND WALL SCENE FROM "DOOMSDAY". Nobody needs another Rose is crying icon.

OMG, the more I see the, the more I gather an irrational hatred for the people using them. I made a point, when I recently iconed "Doomsday", that I stopped way before any of the drama. Stopped right after Rose returned from the alternate world.

I won't feel bad when everyone is wailing online after "Doomsday" is aired Friday in the US because I'm so fucking over it.

Yeah, call me a heartless bitch, I'm this close to calling the episode worst ever.

*sigh* I'm sorry. I complain and complain about S2 of Doctor Who, raise your hand if you're wondering why I'm still watching!

Because there was so much to like! I think RTD let his adoration of the Doctor/Rose storyline get in the way. IMHO, he saw this grand romance build up in S1 that he thought he could rightfully let it carry on as if the Doctor hadn't changed.

It happens in life, people get married, someone changes over the years, they get divorced. What happened with the Doctor is somewhat like that. I DON'T CARE IF YOU TELL ME OVER AND OVER, BUT HE'S THE SAME. That's your fucking opinion, not mine. I didn't see my Doctor shine through that often with Ten. People interpret things differently, see things differently. I saw a different man. Hell, the Doctor didn't even know who he is after a regeneration.

I have a lot of hope in S3, but I'm not expecting another S1, I think it'll turn out okay though.

Comments

[snoopoony.livejournal.com]

Seems like everyone's ranting today... *hugs* *hands over cookies* We should start a club.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I should write a discussion/rant that everyone can relate to more often, the response that I got from this!

COOKIES! Ahem. *huggles*

[boji.livejournal.com]

Crap. LJ just ate my comment and it was a long one too.

In short *grin* I don't see Jack/Ianto either - mind you I've reached the point of wishing Jack had shot him in ep4 - and I never saw Ten/Rose. Didn't really see Nine/Rose either, as to me it still reads as a mentor (quasi paternal) love with a great deal of caring and responsibility. But we're all different readers/viewers and that's okay.

It's why the net invented (well okay fostered) fanfic and fandom so we can celebrate our difference. Who cares about the majority opinion?

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

I don't see Jack/Ianto either - mind you I've reached the point of wishing Jack had shot him in ep4

Oh, wouldn't that have been wonderful?! I swear, Cyberwoman is one of the worst episodes of anything I've ever seen, and just proved to me that (1) DGL can't act his way out of a paper bag, and (2) John Barrowman is so much better with someone he can play off. I don't love Jack with Gwen, but I do think JB is a better actor with EM than with anyone else in the cast. Of course, he doesn't come close to what he could do with CE, but then that bar's pretty damned high.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I don't think we would have missed anything if Jack had shot Ianto on ep4. I just keep thinking, is it really there? I'd much rather Jack/Tosh or even Jack/Owen, because I can see that!

See, I like that people can actually read into Nine/Rose differently because I can stand by my point that they were a hell of a lot more subtle than Ten/Rose.

Who cares about the majority opinion?

Well, I don't since I won't change my views just to follow the crowd.

[boji.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, I can see Jack/Owen and said as much in some review I wrote. Currently the muse took a left turn after Countrycide and I'm writing x-over's - I suppose AU x-over's to be accurate about it.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Sounds interesting.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

You know, when I used to watch SGA out of the corner of my eye, I would never have known about Sheyla. I always seemed to catch the episodes with Sparky interaction. Until I came online and started to look at all these fandoms, and realized, hey! People are into John/Teyla! And then McShep(which will never ever ever become canon because I'm convinced that most viewers, WHO ARE NOT IN FANDOM, are like my father and would be horrified if McKay and Sheppard ever kissed).

You can't help it if sparky have chemistry like whoe and Nine pwnes Ten. lol.

*hugs you like woah for that statement alone*

I believe fandom's biggest ship in Torchwood is Ianto/Jack.

*was tempted to use Rose crying icon but then though better of it. :)*

I made sure to put irrational! But you'd get to slide free because you're on my flist.

[spellingwitch.livejournal.com]

You know I love and adore Nine/Rose too. But I liked Doomsday a lot (I mean both parts). Apart from the fact that Rose and the Doctor get separated forever, which I hate because I don't want a new companion, I thought it was a really good solution to get Rose and her family and loved ones into the other universe together, yet not kill them either. And now you neatly don't have them showing up in S3. But they're not dead, and in my heart of hearts I believe Rose will find a way back or something. (Or even better, maybe she can find Nine again in the alt-verse!).

But Daleks vs. Cybermen? Come on :) That was pretty neat.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

You know, I really liked "Army of Ghosts", I thought it was set-up awesomely. And I think RTD had his heart in the right place, but I don't think he wrote it out so well, and I'll always have an irrational hatred for him leaving Rose like that. Just for leaving us with that last image of her, I hope Billie turns down all future appearances.

*sigh* I'm all for happy endings, in my own heart, and I'm all for good angst. But that? IMHO, was abusing our emotions.

I'm sorry. I don't want to ruin others enjoyment of the show. This is just my own personal disappointment with S2 bleeding through.

[spellingwitch.livejournal.com]

Well of course you are entitled to your opinion :) And I wholeheartedly share it regarding the rest of S2, unfortunately. :(

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Watching that icon, I have an urge to watch "Bad Wolf" now.

[spellingwitch.livejournal.com]

I *HEART* this icon :) I would hug it if I could. :) Thank you so much for making it.

I think I'll watch it too. Right now. Even though I just watched it the other night and my roomate thinks I'm OCD by now. ;) Maybe I am!

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

You're very welcome!

I think I'll watch this one and "The Long Game". It's my secret obsession episode.

[mneiai.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'll start with the Doctor Who related stuff, first: I, too, will have no sympathy for the people who are crying over Doomsday--if they were really that big of fans, they would have moved heaven and earth to have seen all the eps already. There's no excuse.

Anyway, I got into fandom pretty early...I was writing fanfic by third grade and had realized there was an online fandom in sixth. So, that's ::counts on fingers:: about a decade. I rarely, if ever, like the het pairings in anything, anymore, and when I do, they're generally not the canon ones. My favorite shows are the ones that either don't let the main characters get romantically involved, or don't have anyone be seriously romantically involved with anyone (I love Boston Legal for that--everyone sleeps around, most of the characters have or have wanted to have sex with each other, two of the main male characters have most of the other characters thinking they have Big Gay Love for each other...).

I also, surprisingly enough, rarely get into the "main" pairings in a fandom--Jack/Ianto? Howabout not (unless it's extremely well written and Ianto isn't some pansy-ass twink). Most of the time I'll get into a character instead. So that I like almost-anyone-with-John-Sheppard or almost-anyone-with-Richard-Zeeman (though usually there's a slashy tilt to these, just because I tend to be far more judgmental and criticizing of female chars than male chars).

Canon relationships in a lot of things feel force-fed, like with Ten/Rose, or Starbuck/Apollo, or even Angel/Buffy. Few things, especially TV shows, really manage to make a relationship work when a person takes a step back and stops looking at it through the eyes of someone who loves it.

I have no idea where I was going with this, but since it's 3:47am, I probably didn't have a point to begin with.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

It's good to find someone who shares my feelings on Doomsday.

I rarely, if ever, like the het pairings in anything, anymore

I do tend to look for the het pairings first, and sometimes I'll like them, mostly because that's usually what the show will likely push, in my experience. But I'm open for a good slash pairing.

I just haven't come across one. Although, McKay/Ronon...OH, Nine/Jack.

Most of the time I'll get into a character instead.

I can see that, definitely. In fact, I do that with a couple of my favorite characters.

You know, once upon a time, Starbuck and Apollo were really awesomely written and weren't these star-crossed lovers who were cheating on their significant others. I mean, I like them, but I used to love them and write about them and stuff. Now, I'm really thinking of dropping out of that fandom.

[calapine.livejournal.com]

I see not the Jack/Ianto either, and I don't want to for it just does not interest me. There is no Suzie, for a start.

I have a beach-scene icon! Mwah! Ahem. Sorry. Yes, I tend to agree with those thoughts too. Because I found their relationship to be not nearly so interesting in season two (it is always So Much Fun when they surgically remove the tension, yes) and liked both so much more when they were interacting with anyone except each other.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Ah Suzie. I wish she hadn't gone evil.

Damn, I just figured out that I have one too! I completely forgot that I had this one of the Doctor.

Anyway, I completely agree with the second paragraph there.

[freyasdelight.livejournal.com]

I have a feeling that most of the Liz hate is coming from other shippers that see her character as a threat to their ship. I may be projecting, though. I think that's why I don't like Teyla as much as I did. Maybe if they stopped teasing so many ships, there wouldn't be so much fighting.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

You know, a lot of it just comes from people who just don't like Elizabeth, regardless of ship.

I actually like Teyla quite a bit, I just wish they would give her a little more screentime.

But, if Sheyla were ever to become canon, god forbid, I would not enjoy the show anymore. Maybe I'd keep watching, but I'd have no more enjoyment, at all.

I hate the ship teasing.

[mishamay.livejournal.com]

I think TPTB created these ship wars. Their indecisiveness when it comes to shipping is adding fuel to the fire.

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

You know that thing about John Barrowman having chemistry with a rock? Um, well, Ianto proves this wrong. In fact, other than the gun!pr0n scene with Gwen and a great deal of tenderness with Estelle (and, okay, the kiss with Cerys), he's seemed chemistry-free. But they keep telling us there's this hot chemistry with Ianto (and some fans are buying it), but where is it? There's been nothing with anyone that even approaches the Jack/Rose chemistry, let alone the Jack/Nine chemistry. Some of that I put at the feet of Gareth David Lloyd, who seems to lack even the minimal presence required to hold an image on film. I swear, even when he's talking, it seems like he's not there!

I feel your pain about the minority pairings, particularly those that seem obvious to everyone but the fandom! Hell, I've been an F/V person in Due South fandom, and talk about the outcast... But majority doesn't "rule" in the sense that they're right - quite often it seems to me that the majority takes an easy way out, or it's the two-cute-people-in-a-room scenario with no attention paid to the way characters and actors interact. What's interesting to me is that Ten/Rose (like the dominant pairing in DS) seems so unhealthy, and yet people keep saying, "Oh, it's so great!" And I'm thinking, "Ick, ewwwww." They reinforce each others' bad points instead of their good points, and I prefer the pairings that do that. Nine respected Rose, despite her being a stupid ape and because she challenged him; Ten really seemed to think it was okay for her to subsume herself completely in being his adoring groupie. It doesn't reflect well on either of them!

[boji.livejournal.com]

You know that thing about John Barrowman having chemistry with a rock?

What a great line!!!! ;-P

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

I don't know where I got that from, but a friend of mine uses it all the time for CE. And it's true. The one case I can think of him not having chemistry with someone, it was the point of the story.

[pheonix-iz-me.livejournal.com]

Which one?

We are talking Chris not John yes.

Im drawing a Blank on who he's not meant to have chemestry with, Dessie?

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

We are talking Chris not John yes.

Yes, we are talking Chris. Torchwood proves that John needs someone feeding him to have chemistry!

Im drawing a Blank on who he's not meant to have chemestry with, Dessie?

i was thinking about the wife in Heart, who's faffing around with Rhys Ifans. But, really, there's still an "I hate you" kind of chemistry. Ben and Dessie rarely interacted, but there was definitely all the potential in the world for a hairpulling catfight there, and that's a kind of chemistry, IMO - it's a kind of energy between characters. Of course, CE was throwing the energy around in that one fairly freely; you could practically smell the pheromones. He was even nuzzling up to Bill Paterson with intent (not that I blame either one of them...).

[pheonix-iz-me.livejournal.com]

Ah right, I thought about Heart, but I was thinking about the mother not the wife, I've only watched it once.

I love Othello, I was playing back a copy to check it worked I skipped to a scene between John and Ben and My dad asked ' Is he gay?', meaning Ben not Chris, who he's know's isn't gay (My dad is so cool).

since we're talking about chemestry, The scene in Revengers tragedy, when his sister works out who he is, total incest subtext or not?

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

I was thinking about the mother not the wife, I've only watched it once.

I dunno, there was a sleazy repulsion/attraction thing going on with Saskia Reeves, I thought. But then, she's as good at that as he is.

between John and Ben and My dad asked ' Is he gay?',

I was amused by the BFI Classics site, which counts that Othello as one of the best adaptations of Shakespeare and mentions that, "the chemistry between Othello and Jago is so intense that it's almost homoerotic." Almost? They did everything but actually have sex onscreen, what else do you need? That "across a crowded room" opening should tell you all you need to know.

meaning Ben not Chris, who he's know's isn't gay (My dad is so cool).

For someone who has such a string of hot girlfriends behind him, CE does do homoerotic better (and more widely) than anyone I've ever seen. I love that he's that self-confident. Or "flexible".

The scene in Revengers tragedy, when his sister works out who he is, total incest subtext or not?

I was watching with a (gay male) friend, and we both decided that it's not subtext at all and it's more than mutual. Castiza/Vindici is canon. Alex Cox makes a comment on the DVD during the scene where Castiza is getting done up as Gloriana (the scene where Vindici is sprawling on the couch with the skull strategically placed) that because Carla Henry wasn't there when they did CE's shots, he (Alex Cox) had to be the one who seduced Eccleston. Think about it a minute...

I've also heard that Carla Henry was a runner-up for Rose. That wouldn't have been bad at all.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

In fact, other than the gun!pr0n scene with Gwen and a great deal of tenderness with Estelle (and, okay, the kiss with Cerys), he's seemed chemistry-free.

Unfortunately. I loved to see him and Tosh interact though. The little tidbits we've had of them is nice and I think they have lovely interaction when it does come around. Now I want to watch the episode with Estelle again.

What's interesting to me is that Ten/Rose (like the dominant pairing in DS) seems so unhealthy, and yet people keep saying, "Oh, it's so great!" And I'm thinking, "Ick, ewwwww."

*nods*

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

I loved to see him and Tosh interact though.

I've tried to get into Tosh, but I just mostly find her "there" - though that that's true of most of the cast other than Jack and Owen. I'm just not getting much off the characters, which could be fatal.

"Small Worlds" is probably my favourite episode so far (I'm a little behind, but I don't see it changing from what I've heard). But then I loved Sapphire and Steel and love that kind of quasi-poetic storytelling. Plus, it was a very pretty episode to look at. I loved all the green.

Re: Ten/Rose, have you seen the discussion on feminism and DW on doctorwho

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

I think I took a liking to Tosh because right off the bat they showed as somewhat of a geek, and I loved that. Although I'm a bit disappointed to see she's not the same as she was in Doctor Who, even though not only is it the same actress, it's the same character(in name). I know RTD likes to use the same actors, but give them the same name is a little out there.

I think they really got something with "Small Worlds", although I quite liked "They Keep Killing...", I have issues with both(mostly the latter). But really, my only problem with "Small Worlds" would be the step-dad issues they brought up.

I've seen the discussions, but I haven't really read them. I've seen the rant over and over again and have assumed it's probably the same argument again.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Tosh was the Doctor that found the pig in "Aliens of London".

Yeah, Small Worlds was the one with the fairies. And it was good. It was also good screwing up our heads with what they were doing to Jack's timeline.

[meganlynn09.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Tosh was a doctor. Which is what bothers me. They recycled Eve Myles as Gwen, but that's okay, she has a different name, she's a whole new character. But Tosh is the same actress and has the same name!

He is! I believe he said as much in the latest episode.